4 ms·

BGA are the hard ones and virtually not doable for a home gamer, the rest are fine. Imo, through-hole are worse, harder to remove than SMD if you have hot air.

by xxs 7y ago

BGA are the hard ones and virtually not doable for a home gamer, the rest are fine. Imo, through-hole are worse, harder to remove than SMD if you have hot air. (edit) What is actually necessary for electronics - "schematics" and datasheets. It's quite hard and time consuming to trace stuff, esp. on multilayered PCB. Lack of datasheet is even harder to overcome in many cases.

philpem 7y ago
Through-hole is easier than SMD with the correct tools. Specifically a vacuum desoldering tool (Metcal MFR, Pace SX or similar).
- m0xte 7y ago
  Until you pull a pad through on a $20k multilayer board. Been there. Give me straight, well designed and BGA-less SMD any day. Also Metcal user here.
  - jacquesm 7y ago
    I think you meant 'via'?
    - m0xte 7y ago
      The via yes. That's attached to the pad on the other side which is what I'm referring to. The first "oh shit" moment is when you see the pad attached to the leg of the part.
    - magduf 7y ago
      Not really, no. It's really nit-picking, but a "via" is a (usually small) plated-through hole that is used solely for connecting traces on different layers of the board. I'm pretty sure the term isn't normally used for the plated-thru holes with pads that are used for thru-hole parts, even though the construction of the two is almost the same. The main differences are that the holes for PTH parts are usually larger, and the pads around them are larger, for better soldering. Vias don't need much of a pad around the hole because you're not putting solder in the hole, and vias are usually covered with soldermask.
      - jacquesm 7y ago
        Yes, really, yes. It isn't nitpicking when you're simply wrong. Via's are vertical interconnects between layers, they can be 'blind' vias which do not connect to either top or bottom layers or regular ones. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Via_(electronics) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Via_(electronics)
        magduf 7y ago
        If you're going to call someone wrong, then you should check to make sure you're right first. But you aren't: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Through-hole_technology https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Through-hole_technology "Plated-through holes are no longer required with SMT boards for making the component connections, but are still used for making interconnections between the layers and in this role are more usually called vias.[2]" Even your own link says nothing about PTH, and just discusses vias for use in SMT.
        jacquesm 7y ago
        Except that the context was through hole boards. > "Through-hole is easier than SMD with the correct tools. Specifically a vacuum desoldering tool (Metcal MFR, Pace SX or similar)."
  - philpem 7y ago
    I'm all over the place -- I've got an Aoyue hot-air station, a Metcal MFR soldering station and a Pace SX90 vacuum desoldering rig. :) Whatever I can get for cheap, basically. Home hobbyist :)
jacquesm 7y ago
BGA is doable, just a bit more work. Just be very careful with your prep work.
- magduf 7y ago
  Depends on the BGA; the extremely high-density ones generally require special tools. They're also nearly impossible to inspect without special camera equipment. The really low-density ones (like DFN) are pretty easy for a hobbyist though, but in general BGAs should be avoided for designs aimed at hobbyists. You can get away with repairing them sometimes, using a reflow oven (made from a toaster oven), or even a hot-plate, and it is possible to re-ball them at home, but I wouldn't count on this as a reliable thing.
  - xxs 7y ago
    "BGA at home", I'd never touch that. A person w/o experience and/or rework station is likely to meet frustration only. It's a futile effort in my opinion. The inspection part is bang on - what if there is a short and it just burns the traces. Now the thing is not repairable even by a professional repair service. I am just a programmer... totally for right to repair, open schematics, easily to source components, etc. I can repair electronics, incl. SMD soldering on laptops, LED light fixtures, diagnose home appliances but I'd not touch any BGA. Or heat pump water/fluid subsystem or high pressure vessels -- and I'd prefer if I'd buy a house with any of them installed not to have been repaired w/o care and experience.

by xxs 7y ago

philpem 7y ago

Through-hole is easier than SMD with the correct tools. Specifically a vacuum desoldering tool (Metcal MFR, Pace SX or similar).

m0xte 7y ago
Until you pull a pad through on a $20k multilayer board. Been there. Give me straight, well designed and BGA-less SMD any day. Also Metcal user here.
- jacquesm 7y ago
  I think you meant 'via'?
  - m0xte 7y ago
    The via yes. That's attached to the pad on the other side which is what I'm referring to. The first "oh shit" moment is when you see the pad attached to the leg of the part.
  - magduf 7y ago
    Not really, no. It's really nit-picking, but a "via" is a (usually small) plated-through hole that is used solely for connecting traces on different layers of the board. I'm pretty sure the term isn't normally used for the plated-thru holes with pads that are used for thru-hole parts, even though the construction of the two is almost the same. The main differences are that the holes for PTH parts are usually larger, and the pads around them are larger, for better soldering. Vias don't need much of a pad around the hole because you're not putting solder in the hole, and vias are usually covered with soldermask.
    - jacquesm 7y ago
      Yes, really, yes. It isn't nitpicking when you're simply wrong. Via's are vertical interconnects between layers, they can be 'blind' vias which do not connect to either top or bottom layers or regular ones. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Via_(electronics) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Via_(electronics)
      - magduf 7y ago
        If you're going to call someone wrong, then you should check to make sure you're right first. But you aren't: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Through-hole_technology https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Through-hole_technology "Plated-through holes are no longer required with SMT boards for making the component connections, but are still used for making interconnections between the layers and in this role are more usually called vias.[2]" Even your own link says nothing about PTH, and just discusses vias for use in SMT.
        jacquesm 7y ago
        Except that the context was through hole boards. > "Through-hole is easier than SMD with the correct tools. Specifically a vacuum desoldering tool (Metcal MFR, Pace SX or similar)."
- philpem 7y ago
  I'm all over the place -- I've got an Aoyue hot-air station, a Metcal MFR soldering station and a Pace SX90 vacuum desoldering rig. :) Whatever I can get for cheap, basically. Home hobbyist :)

jacquesm 7y ago

BGA is doable, just a bit more work. Just be very careful with your prep work.

magduf 7y ago
Depends on the BGA; the extremely high-density ones generally require special tools. They're also nearly impossible to inspect without special camera equipment. The really low-density ones (like DFN) are pretty easy for a hobbyist though, but in general BGAs should be avoided for designs aimed at hobbyists. You can get away with repairing them sometimes, using a reflow oven (made from a toaster oven), or even a hot-plate, and it is possible to re-ball them at home, but I wouldn't count on this as a reliable thing.
- xxs 7y ago
  "BGA at home", I'd never touch that. A person w/o experience and/or rework station is likely to meet frustration only. It's a futile effort in my opinion. The inspection part is bang on - what if there is a short and it just burns the traces. Now the thing is not repairable even by a professional repair service. I am just a programmer... totally for right to repair, open schematics, easily to source components, etc. I can repair electronics, incl. SMD soldering on laptops, LED light fixtures, diagnose home appliances but I'd not touch any BGA. Or heat pump water/fluid subsystem or high pressure vessels -- and I'd prefer if I'd buy a house with any of them installed not to have been repaired w/o care and experience.