8 ms·

Piracy Doubled My App Sales

131 points by danielamitay 16y ago

thecape 16y ago
As you mention, this effect probably works since you don't have Top 100 exposure.
- sjs 16y ago
  I don't have any data on this but I'd wager that piracy increases exposure even for a top 100 app; it would just pale in comparison to the existing exposure of being a top 100 app. People using an app are people using an app no matter how they acquired it.
  - leon_ 16y ago
    > People using an app are ... potential support costs. So it matters if they paid for the app or not.
    - sjs 16y ago
      Oh, yes I agree there 100%. I didn't mean to imply that it's not a problem in any way, just that pirating users provide some exposure too. You could argue that they also decrease exposure by not counting as a download & dollar earned in the app store, but first you'd have to prove that all pirates would buy have purchased the app if not available for free, which I think many people agree is patently false.
- rmc 16y ago
  With 100,000 apps, the majority of apps aren't in the Top 100. This means this pro-piracy approach will probably increase sales for the majority of apps.
kolektiv 16y ago
iPhone app "piracy" is perhaps a little different from run of the mill software copyright infringement. It's one of the only places around where even for consumers, there's no way of trying before you buy. I can imagine that there is a significant (I have no idea how large, and not a majority certainly, but significant) number of people who will pirate an iPhone app and then later buy it if they find themselves using it. I'm honest enough to admit that I do this, and I very much doubt I'm alone.
- Quarrelsome 16y ago
  You have the same issue in other areas. For example I wanted to check out a multiplayer city builder game with a friend some years back prior to buying and there was no way to do this outside of piracy as the demo didn't cover this feature. Bootnote: We did buy the game following this!
- rmc 16y ago
  With Apple's DRM and control of the App Store they could probably create a 'refund within 7 days' thing.
  - xenophanes 16y ago
    A lot of apps, especially games, you can finish using within 7 days (or even 1 day, plenty of iPhone games do not have over, say, 12 hours of gameplay).
    - waqf 16y ago
      A lot of books, especially fiction, you can finish reading within 14 days. I was never made to feel guilty about borrowing those books from the city library, returning them two weeks later and never buying them. When did the standard change?
      - alanfalcon 16y ago
        An App Store is not a library any more than your local Borders is. At least the copy of the book that's in the library was bought and paid for somewhere along the way.
        jawee 16y ago
        Since a software download isn´t tangible, it seems to make the library illustration make more sense.
        16y ago
thalur 16y ago
How did you get the figures for the number of pirates? Is it the anti-piracy code you added reporting back to you?
- danielamitay 16y ago
  Ah I should include that info, thanks. Flurry tells me the number of [new jailbreak users], which lines up almost perfectly with: [new users] - [new sales].
  - Xuzz 16y ago
    (I know this is a bit pedantic, but I do want to remind people that not all jailbreak users -- and, in fact, more than half of them -- aren't pirates.)
  - deleted 16y ago
    [deleted]
  - gte910h 16y ago
    Um huh? Jailbreak user != pirate. Jailbreaking occurs for dozens of non-pirate reasons, most commonly to allow tethering, or the installation of apps that apple does not like, or to allow the user to use a non-approved network (such as T-Mo in the US). Also, does flurry now disambiguate multiple devices on the same account? I know I have 6 or 7 devices on my account [I too write apps for a living] alone...but I'm sure I only count as one sale. Seems like those people would also show up as pirates by your metrics.
rwl 16y ago
This illustrates perfectly why sharing software shouldn't be called "piracy" or "stealing." These terms are simply inappropriate for software, movies, music, and other works that can be copied for almost zero cost. When real pirates steal real goods, their owner doesn't have them anymore, and can't benefit from them anymore. They don't double their sales, because there's fewer things left to sell. Software isn't like that: you just make another copy for the next paying user. This is true whether your software is proprietary or free. Comparing people who share your software with others to pirates means you are criminalizing the folks who are doing your marketing for you.
- epo 16y ago
  Calling it marketing doesn't make it so. Depriving the owner of their revenue is theft just as much as deciding to occupy a seat on a train without paying is depriving the train operator of revenue and is theft, claiming that the seat is unused or that you doing marketing is bogus. You are depriving them of revenue and are committing theft. If the term of usage is pay to use then not paying is stealing, if you don't like it then don't use it.
  - hxa7241 16y ago
    Oh please! Copying something is not theft or stealing, either legally, ethically, or physically. You can argue about the economic effects, but at least stop using misleading terms -- it does not help anyone understand anything.
    - statictype 16y ago
      Unless the creator has explictly granted you the right to copy, copying is certainly theft in the legal sense and often in the ethical sense. Whether or not you agree with the legality of it is irrelevant, the fact is that it's illegal for you to make copies of software that you are not authorized to copy. Ethically, it's not fair to the people who build these apps to be deprived of the revenue they would earn from your usage of it. They don't have a right to your money, but then, you don't have a right to their software either.
fizz972 16y ago
"Obscurity is a far greater threat to authors and creative artists than piracy" - Tim O'Reilly.
danielh 16y ago
I think the piracy marketing effect works especially well for iOS because not all devices are jailbroken. If Alice jailbreaks her phone, and Bob doesn't, Alice can show Bob her pirated apps, but can't easily share them with him. If Bob sees somethings he likes, he must buy it. The same might be true for game consoles, but probably not for PCs.
snewman 16y ago
If you can arrange things so that some (but not all) of the functionality in your app is unavailable in a pirated copy, then piracy becomes a form of trialware, and can be a huge marketing channel. Way back in the day, I co-wrote an early networked multiplayer game on the Mac, Spectre. We didn't use copy protection, as it was too much hassle for legitimate users. However, there was a nontrivial-to-hack requirement that you have N serial numbers for an N-player game. This led to people pirating the game for the single-player mode, enjoying it, and buying a second or third copy for multiplayer. I don't have hard data, but we believe a lot of our sales originated this way. There's probably some psychology at work here: if you let someone download a "trial version" for free, they may not value it as much as an app they had to "pirate".
- hedgehog 16y ago
  Thanks for Spectre! I have fond memories of playing over AppleTalk with friends.
  - snewman 16y ago
    Glad to hear it! I have not-quite-so-fond memories of debugging all that AppleTalk code. :) Still, writing Spectre was one of the most fun things I've done. It amazes me, after all these years, how often I still run into people who remember the game.
    - alanfalcon 16y ago
      Count me in as one of those who loved the game. Also, I was one who only played a pirated copy, unfortunately. Not a good excuse, but at the time I was just a kid with no access to any kind of payment method. I'm happy to see Spectre has been released on iOS, and at last I can pay for a legit copy of the game! In fact, I just bought two licenses, one for myself and one for my friend who originally "shared" the game with me. Are you at all involved in the iOS port?
      - snewman 16y ago
dholowiski 16y ago
The author who was complaining that his book was being pirated (on HN yesterday) should read this article.
dave1619 16y ago
This article is misinformed. We've been in the AppStore for the past 3 Christmas's and have noticed a significant spike each Christmas (30-50%+ increase sales) that doesn't really taper off. Sure the week between Christmas and New Years has the greatest spike (70%+ spike) but after that it returns to much higher numbers than before Christmas (ie., about 30-50% higher sales). Surprisingly, these numbers seem to carry on throughout the year until the next Christmas season and then you experience the same spike in sales. Throughout the year there are some ups and downs but it's pretty steady. Sure, piracy might have helped his app sales a bit, but he's wrong to discount the fact that the holiday season changes everything in the AppStore and it's effect continues on throughout the year.
- d0mine 16y ago
  Could you explain why it happens? (iPhone as a Christmas present?)
  - rbritton 16y ago
    I can corroborate this with iPad app sales. I believe a large number of iPads were Christmas gifts this year and am in my highest grossing 30-day stretch to date.
  - dave1619 16y ago
    I'm not completely sure why this happens. But in our experience over the past 3 Christmas's, it appears that there's a huge number of new users and new app purchasers. My guess is iPod Touches and iPhones as Christmas gifts, and also tons of iTunes gift cards that people use in Jan-March. But after the iTunes gift cards and the iPod Touch users wane a bit, the user base grows still because of iPhone and thus somehow the market is stable throughout the year.
  - guscost 16y ago
    I'd guess the market of iPad/Phone users expands every year on Christmas, and if market share stays consistent for everyone that means a permanent boost in sales.
leon_ 16y ago
I suspected this for low quantity apps already but couldn't prove it as it might have been (or might still be) a statistical anomaly. I had a non-appstore Mac app pirated and after a known "scene group" released a keygen and the app started to appear on known sites the sales actually increased. (Though it was nowhere near a 200% increase.)
solipsist 16y ago
Could it not be the other way around: perhaps your doubled app sales provoked a huge increase in piracy?
- bajsejohannes 16y ago
  Or even that piracy and sales do not affect each other: Piracy could simply always be a constant X% of users. I am just speculating, but I don't see any evidence of causation one way or the other.
  - grogers 16y ago
    Well the number of pirates rose disproportionately more than the number of paid users, so it definitely isn't _just_ a constant percentage.
araneae 16y ago
ITS. ITS. Really, I'm only that angry because seconds ago I saw this caption: http://somerville.patch.com/articles/photo-gallery-snow-art-flash-mob-creates-wintry-art-and-an-epic-snowball-fight#photo-4475935 http://somerville.patch.com/articles/photo-gallery-snow-art-... I mean, maybe we should change that rule or something so people stop breaking it.
powertower 16y ago
From the author's text: > My app has a sharing feature: if you like the app, you can email your friends about it. Unless your software product has something similar (and is also priced low, and is also installed via something like an app store: and hence is one-click away), I don't think piracy will help you much. At least it does not to the s/w authors who claim a persistent 30-80% drop in sales the day the crack comes out.
- jawee 16y ago
  When I first got my iPod Touch and was looking for applications, I started asking around to friends who had Touches and iPhones to find applications. I found the people who could recommend me the best selection of applications were those who had pirated a lot of applications, as they had tried the most. I based my applications I bought mostly on 3 friends with jailbroken phones with a plethora of applications.
InnocentB 16y ago
Basically, this article is saying that through piracy, you get more exposure for your app, and if your app has any social features in it, the network effects can outweigh any potential lost sales through piracy. I think a more effective way to do this would be to make the app free for limited periods. You'll reach a much broader audience, with the same effects.
rradu 16y ago
For those like me that were wondering how it's even possible to pirate an iPhone app: you need a jailbroken phone and a program like Crackulous - http://hackulo.us/forums/index.php?s=4a4a9c10b678d8400dee0d56087f4c20&showtopic=12255 http://hackulo.us/forums/index.php?s=4a4a9c10b678d8400dee0d5...
geekfactor 16y ago
Does the author present any empirical evidence of piracy, or is this solely an assumption based on the the sales pattern not meeting his expectations?

131 points by danielamitay 16y ago

thecape 16y ago

As you mention, this effect probably works since you don't have Top 100 exposure.

sjs 16y ago
I don't have any data on this but I'd wager that piracy increases exposure even for a top 100 app; it would just pale in comparison to the existing exposure of being a top 100 app. People using an app are people using an app no matter how they acquired it.
- leon_ 16y ago
  > People using an app are ... potential support costs. So it matters if they paid for the app or not.
  - sjs 16y ago
    Oh, yes I agree there 100%. I didn't mean to imply that it's not a problem in any way, just that pirating users provide some exposure too. You could argue that they also decrease exposure by not counting as a download & dollar earned in the app store, but first you'd have to prove that all pirates would buy have purchased the app if not available for free, which I think many people agree is patently false.
rmc 16y ago
With 100,000 apps, the majority of apps aren't in the Top 100. This means this pro-piracy approach will probably increase sales for the majority of apps.

kolektiv 16y ago

iPhone app "piracy" is perhaps a little different from run of the mill software copyright infringement. It's one of the only places around where even for consumers, there's no way of trying before you buy. I can imagine that there is a significant (I have no idea how large, and not a majority certainly, but significant) number of people who will pirate an iPhone app and then later buy it if they find themselves using it. I'm honest enough to admit that I do this, and I very much doubt I'm alone.

Quarrelsome 16y ago
You have the same issue in other areas. For example I wanted to check out a multiplayer city builder game with a friend some years back prior to buying and there was no way to do this outside of piracy as the demo didn't cover this feature. Bootnote: We did buy the game following this!
rmc 16y ago
With Apple's DRM and control of the App Store they could probably create a 'refund within 7 days' thing.
- xenophanes 16y ago
  A lot of apps, especially games, you can finish using within 7 days (or even 1 day, plenty of iPhone games do not have over, say, 12 hours of gameplay).
  - waqf 16y ago
    A lot of books, especially fiction, you can finish reading within 14 days. I was never made to feel guilty about borrowing those books from the city library, returning them two weeks later and never buying them. When did the standard change?
    - alanfalcon 16y ago
      An App Store is not a library any more than your local Borders is. At least the copy of the book that's in the library was bought and paid for somewhere along the way.
      - jawee 16y ago
        Since a software download isn´t tangible, it seems to make the library illustration make more sense.
        16y ago

thalur 16y ago

How did you get the figures for the number of pirates? Is it the anti-piracy code you added reporting back to you?

danielamitay 16y ago
Ah I should include that info, thanks. Flurry tells me the number of [new jailbreak users], which lines up almost perfectly with: [new users] - [new sales].
- Xuzz 16y ago
  (I know this is a bit pedantic, but I do want to remind people that not all jailbreak users -- and, in fact, more than half of them -- aren't pirates.)
- deleted 16y ago
  [deleted]
- gte910h 16y ago
  Um huh? Jailbreak user != pirate. Jailbreaking occurs for dozens of non-pirate reasons, most commonly to allow tethering, or the installation of apps that apple does not like, or to allow the user to use a non-approved network (such as T-Mo in the US). Also, does flurry now disambiguate multiple devices on the same account? I know I have 6 or 7 devices on my account [I too write apps for a living] alone...but I'm sure I only count as one sale. Seems like those people would also show up as pirates by your metrics.

rwl 16y ago

This illustrates perfectly why sharing software shouldn't be called "piracy" or "stealing." These terms are simply inappropriate for software, movies, music, and other works that can be copied for almost zero cost. When real pirates steal real goods, their owner doesn't have them anymore, and can't benefit from them anymore. They don't double their sales, because there's fewer things left to sell. Software isn't like that: you just make another copy for the next paying user. This is true whether your software is proprietary or free. Comparing people who share your software with others to pirates means you are criminalizing the folks who are doing your marketing for you.

epo 16y ago
Calling it marketing doesn't make it so. Depriving the owner of their revenue is theft just as much as deciding to occupy a seat on a train without paying is depriving the train operator of revenue and is theft, claiming that the seat is unused or that you doing marketing is bogus. You are depriving them of revenue and are committing theft. If the term of usage is pay to use then not paying is stealing, if you don't like it then don't use it.
- hxa7241 16y ago
  Oh please! Copying something is not theft or stealing, either legally, ethically, or physically. You can argue about the economic effects, but at least stop using misleading terms -- it does not help anyone understand anything.
  - statictype 16y ago
    Unless the creator has explictly granted you the right to copy, copying is certainly theft in the legal sense and often in the ethical sense. Whether or not you agree with the legality of it is irrelevant, the fact is that it's illegal for you to make copies of software that you are not authorized to copy. Ethically, it's not fair to the people who build these apps to be deprived of the revenue they would earn from your usage of it. They don't have a right to your money, but then, you don't have a right to their software either.

fizz972 16y ago

"Obscurity is a far greater threat to authors and creative artists than piracy" - Tim O'Reilly.

danielh 16y ago

I think the piracy marketing effect works especially well for iOS because not all devices are jailbroken. If Alice jailbreaks her phone, and Bob doesn't, Alice can show Bob her pirated apps, but can't easily share them with him. If Bob sees somethings he likes, he must buy it. The same might be true for game consoles, but probably not for PCs.

snewman 16y ago

If you can arrange things so that some (but not all) of the functionality in your app is unavailable in a pirated copy, then piracy becomes a form of trialware, and can be a huge marketing channel. Way back in the day, I co-wrote an early networked multiplayer game on the Mac, Spectre. We didn't use copy protection, as it was too much hassle for legitimate users. However, there was a nontrivial-to-hack requirement that you have N serial numbers for an N-player game. This led to people pirating the game for the single-player mode, enjoying it, and buying a second or third copy for multiplayer. I don't have hard data, but we believe a lot of our sales originated this way. There's probably some psychology at work here: if you let someone download a "trial version" for free, they may not value it as much as an app they had to "pirate".

hedgehog 16y ago
Thanks for Spectre! I have fond memories of playing over AppleTalk with friends.
- snewman 16y ago
  Glad to hear it! I have not-quite-so-fond memories of debugging all that AppleTalk code. :) Still, writing Spectre was one of the most fun things I've done. It amazes me, after all these years, how often I still run into people who remember the game.
  - alanfalcon 16y ago
    Count me in as one of those who loved the game. Also, I was one who only played a pirated copy, unfortunately. Not a good excuse, but at the time I was just a kid with no access to any kind of payment method. I'm happy to see Spectre has been released on iOS, and at last I can pay for a legit copy of the game! In fact, I just bought two licenses, one for myself and one for my friend who originally "shared" the game with me. Are you at all involved in the iOS port?
    - snewman 16y ago

dholowiski 16y ago

The author who was complaining that his book was being pirated (on HN yesterday) should read this article.

dave1619 16y ago

This article is misinformed. We've been in the AppStore for the past 3 Christmas's and have noticed a significant spike each Christmas (30-50%+ increase sales) that doesn't really taper off. Sure the week between Christmas and New Years has the greatest spike (70%+ spike) but after that it returns to much higher numbers than before Christmas (ie., about 30-50% higher sales). Surprisingly, these numbers seem to carry on throughout the year until the next Christmas season and then you experience the same spike in sales. Throughout the year there are some ups and downs but it's pretty steady. Sure, piracy might have helped his app sales a bit, but he's wrong to discount the fact that the holiday season changes everything in the AppStore and it's effect continues on throughout the year.

d0mine 16y ago
Could you explain why it happens? (iPhone as a Christmas present?)
- rbritton 16y ago
  I can corroborate this with iPad app sales. I believe a large number of iPads were Christmas gifts this year and am in my highest grossing 30-day stretch to date.
- dave1619 16y ago
  I'm not completely sure why this happens. But in our experience over the past 3 Christmas's, it appears that there's a huge number of new users and new app purchasers. My guess is iPod Touches and iPhones as Christmas gifts, and also tons of iTunes gift cards that people use in Jan-March. But after the iTunes gift cards and the iPod Touch users wane a bit, the user base grows still because of iPhone and thus somehow the market is stable throughout the year.
- guscost 16y ago
  I'd guess the market of iPad/Phone users expands every year on Christmas, and if market share stays consistent for everyone that means a permanent boost in sales.

leon_ 16y ago

I suspected this for low quantity apps already but couldn't prove it as it might have been (or might still be) a statistical anomaly. I had a non-appstore Mac app pirated and after a known "scene group" released a keygen and the app started to appear on known sites the sales actually increased. (Though it was nowhere near a 200% increase.)

solipsist 16y ago

Could it not be the other way around: perhaps your doubled app sales provoked a huge increase in piracy?

bajsejohannes 16y ago
Or even that piracy and sales do not affect each other: Piracy could simply always be a constant X% of users. I am just speculating, but I don't see any evidence of causation one way or the other.
- grogers 16y ago
  Well the number of pirates rose disproportionately more than the number of paid users, so it definitely isn't _just_ a constant percentage.

araneae 16y ago

ITS. ITS. Really, I'm only that angry because seconds ago I saw this caption: http://somerville.patch.com/articles/photo-gallery-snow-art-flash-mob-creates-wintry-art-and-an-epic-snowball-fight#photo-4475935 http://somerville.patch.com/articles/photo-gallery-snow-art-... I mean, maybe we should change that rule or something so people stop breaking it.

powertower 16y ago

From the author's text: > My app has a sharing feature: if you like the app, you can email your friends about it. Unless your software product has something similar (and is also priced low, and is also installed via something like an app store: and hence is one-click away), I don't think piracy will help you much. At least it does not to the s/w authors who claim a persistent 30-80% drop in sales the day the crack comes out.

jawee 16y ago
When I first got my iPod Touch and was looking for applications, I started asking around to friends who had Touches and iPhones to find applications. I found the people who could recommend me the best selection of applications were those who had pirated a lot of applications, as they had tried the most. I based my applications I bought mostly on 3 friends with jailbroken phones with a plethora of applications.

InnocentB 16y ago

Basically, this article is saying that through piracy, you get more exposure for your app, and if your app has any social features in it, the network effects can outweigh any potential lost sales through piracy. I think a more effective way to do this would be to make the app free for limited periods. You'll reach a much broader audience, with the same effects.

rradu 16y ago

For those like me that were wondering how it's even possible to pirate an iPhone app: you need a jailbroken phone and a program like Crackulous - http://hackulo.us/forums/index.php?s=4a4a9c10b678d8400dee0d56087f4c20&showtopic=12255 http://hackulo.us/forums/index.php?s=4a4a9c10b678d8400dee0d5...

geekfactor 16y ago

Does the author present any empirical evidence of piracy, or is this solely an assumption based on the the sales pattern not meeting his expectations?