3 ms·

Imagine the world if Stallman had been excommunicated from tech after the first awkward/offensive interaction he had with someone. I sure wouldn’t. Tangential

Imagine the world if Stallman had been excommunicated from tech after the first awkward/offensive interaction he had with someone. I sure wouldn’t. Tangentially: I better not see anyone here lionize Steve Jobs ever again, because he inflicted actual physical trauma on people. He didn’t just piss them off with his failure to recognize social cues.

floatingatoll 7y ago
“The first” is neither what has happened with Stallman, nor is it what I describe in my comment. Many incidents have occurred, enough to demonstrate that they’re a trend rather than “the first” one-off. Many folks have noted that most people in Stallman’s position would have chose to learn to be better people to those around them. He did not make that choice, and the result is that many stories told about him paint him in a severely negative light. Please don’t use threats here; “I better not see anyone here [any action here]” has no place in this forum’s conversations.
- remarkEon 7y ago
  >Many incidents have occurred, enough to demonstrate that they’re a trend rather than “the first” one-off. Are people deliberately ignoring the fact that his guy is mentally ill? You're ascribing neurotypical social requirements to someone who is demonstrably not capable of them, and then acting surprised when he breaches said decorum. >Please don’t use threats here; “I better not see anyone here [any action here]” has no place in this forum’s conversations. Actually my comment seems well in line with the general tone of this thread - which is either intentionally misleading about what actually a happened or willfully arrogant and dismissive about how people who struggle with mental illness can respond to the modern sociopolitical environment and its "requirements".
  - floatingatoll 7y ago
    “I better not see anyone here doing XYZ or else I’ll ABC” is the complete construction of the phrase you use. In parenting, this phrase typically replaces ABC with “punish you”, “hit you”, “spank you”. Your construction buries the implied violence of that phrase by leaving off the “or else”, but that does not resolve the inappropriateness of threatening “or else” on this forum.
    - remarkEon 7y ago
      I’m glad to see you enjoy policing language as much as Stallman’s detractors. Most would consider it “rude” to invent something out of thin air that was not actually said and ascribe “violence” of intent to it - but, again, seems right in line with this thread.
      - floatingatoll 7y ago
        Please complete your construction; it’s missing the “or else” phrase that is required for it to be interpreted without guessing. Your phrase was: > I better not see anyone here lionize Steve Jobs ever again. Without an “or else” construction, this phrase is not parseable English. Why is “better” present if it is not a command-tone declaration upon others? What reason exists to say this if it is not intended to imply “or else you’ll regret it”, either nonviolently or violently? What precise regret do you imply that anyone who “lionizes” will suffer?
    - JabavuAdams 7y ago
      I dunno. I read it as ABC is "call you a hypocrite". I mean it's strong phrasing, but ... your concern seems more of a personal hot-button.
      - floatingatoll 7y ago
        Whether violent ABC or nonviolent ABC, “I’d better not see XYZ or else ABC” is equally inappropriate here regardless.
        dependenttypes 7y ago
        Is an explicit “I’d better not see XYZ or else ABC” worse than an implicit one? Consider an implicit "you better not have the same opinions as stallman or I will cancel you" for example.
  - mantoto 7y ago
    Do you think it is acceptable to put someone with mental illness in a Powerposition? Do you think someone with a mental illness should've president of the USA? Wait...
oliyoung 7y ago
Imagine the world where that person that didn't do the thing in tech because of an "awkward/offensive interaction" with Stallman did that thing. Imagine that multiplied by all the someones that didn't do any of the things that had an awkward/offensive interaction with Stallman did those things. These behaviours, ESPECIALLY by someone in such a influential position in our industry, have a chilling effect on every person they affected.
- flippinburgers 7y ago
  Which is a completely subjective lense.
- dependenttypes 7y ago
  > Imagine the world where that person that didn't do the thing in tech because of an "awkward/offensive interaction" with Stallman did that thing. It really seems like they are inflicting it on themselves though. Stallman is not a gatekeeper.
astrodust 7y ago
"Imagine the world where people were held accountable and called out for being dicks.."
walls 7y ago
Curious, what exactly do you think would be different in a world without Stallman?

floatingatoll 7y ago

“The first” is neither what has happened with Stallman, nor is it what I describe in my comment. Many incidents have occurred, enough to demonstrate that they’re a trend rather than “the first” one-off. Many folks have noted that most people in Stallman’s position would have chose to learn to be better people to those around them. He did not make that choice, and the result is that many stories told about him paint him in a severely negative light. Please don’t use threats here; “I better not see anyone here [any action here]” has no place in this forum’s conversations.

remarkEon 7y ago
>Many incidents have occurred, enough to demonstrate that they’re a trend rather than “the first” one-off. Are people deliberately ignoring the fact that his guy is mentally ill? You're ascribing neurotypical social requirements to someone who is demonstrably not capable of them, and then acting surprised when he breaches said decorum. >Please don’t use threats here; “I better not see anyone here [any action here]” has no place in this forum’s conversations. Actually my comment seems well in line with the general tone of this thread - which is either intentionally misleading about what actually a happened or willfully arrogant and dismissive about how people who struggle with mental illness can respond to the modern sociopolitical environment and its "requirements".
- floatingatoll 7y ago
  “I better not see anyone here doing XYZ or else I’ll ABC” is the complete construction of the phrase you use. In parenting, this phrase typically replaces ABC with “punish you”, “hit you”, “spank you”. Your construction buries the implied violence of that phrase by leaving off the “or else”, but that does not resolve the inappropriateness of threatening “or else” on this forum.
  - remarkEon 7y ago
    I’m glad to see you enjoy policing language as much as Stallman’s detractors. Most would consider it “rude” to invent something out of thin air that was not actually said and ascribe “violence” of intent to it - but, again, seems right in line with this thread.
    - floatingatoll 7y ago
      Please complete your construction; it’s missing the “or else” phrase that is required for it to be interpreted without guessing. Your phrase was: > I better not see anyone here lionize Steve Jobs ever again. Without an “or else” construction, this phrase is not parseable English. Why is “better” present if it is not a command-tone declaration upon others? What reason exists to say this if it is not intended to imply “or else you’ll regret it”, either nonviolently or violently? What precise regret do you imply that anyone who “lionizes” will suffer?
  - JabavuAdams 7y ago
    I dunno. I read it as ABC is "call you a hypocrite". I mean it's strong phrasing, but ... your concern seems more of a personal hot-button.
    - floatingatoll 7y ago
      Whether violent ABC or nonviolent ABC, “I’d better not see XYZ or else ABC” is equally inappropriate here regardless.
      - dependenttypes 7y ago
        Is an explicit “I’d better not see XYZ or else ABC” worse than an implicit one? Consider an implicit "you better not have the same opinions as stallman or I will cancel you" for example.
- mantoto 7y ago
  Do you think it is acceptable to put someone with mental illness in a Powerposition? Do you think someone with a mental illness should've president of the USA? Wait...

oliyoung 7y ago

Imagine the world where that person that didn't do the thing in tech because of an "awkward/offensive interaction" with Stallman did that thing. Imagine that multiplied by all the someones that didn't do any of the things that had an awkward/offensive interaction with Stallman did those things. These behaviours, ESPECIALLY by someone in such a influential position in our industry, have a chilling effect on every person they affected.

flippinburgers 7y ago
Which is a completely subjective lense.
dependenttypes 7y ago
> Imagine the world where that person that didn't do the thing in tech because of an "awkward/offensive interaction" with Stallman did that thing. It really seems like they are inflicting it on themselves though. Stallman is not a gatekeeper.

astrodust 7y ago

"Imagine the world where people were held accountable and called out for being dicks.."

walls 7y ago

Curious, what exactly do you think would be different in a world without Stallman?