5 ms·

It should be illegal for the government to detain people in areas with inadequate access to medical care. If they want to put immigration detention centers (or

It should be illegal for the government to detain people in areas with inadequate access to medical care. If they want to put immigration detention centers (or any prison) in the middle of nowhere, they should be required to pay for a doctor to be there too. And it isn't a case of 'well migrants cross the border in the middle of nowhere so it's their fault' - almost all immigrants held in this place are transferred from another ICE detention center (https://trac.syr.edu/immigration/detention/201509/WTXDFTX/tran/ https://trac.syr.edu/immigration/detention/201509/WTXDFTX/tr...)

arcticbull 7y ago
Yes this sounds criminally negligent.
vkou 7y ago
The cruelty isn't an unhappy, accidental by-product. It's the whole point of the policy. This is what ~half the country endorses, by virtue of how it votes.
- ddingus 7y ago
  Not really. Voters need options to vote for. Money in politics constrains those considerably. Blaming people just does not speak to the mess well enough to be productive.
- ddingus 7y ago
  Apparently, my earlier message did not resonate: To be absolutely clear, this mess we are in is a function of money in politics, voters not seeing a choice they feel good about, and a general trend toward more authoritarian norms. In any election, voters can and will do one of the following: Vote Major Party Vote other No Vote In the last election, a large number of Americans did not have a choice they felt worthy of a vote. Blaming them does all of us ZERO good. Fear, blame and shame politics do not work to GOTV. We can have a discussion about how we got here, and I think that makes sense to do. It's too easy to just "blame the stupid people", as if that's all there is to any of this.
  - lazyasciiart 7y ago
    My guess is that 'half the country' in that comment was supposed to refer to Trump voters, not non-voters.
    - ddingus 7y ago
      That's not half the country.
      - lazyasciiart 7y ago
        No, but it's a pretty common mistake and makes more sense than it being the ones who didn't vote.
        ddingus 7y ago
        Well, even then I do not know how much better. People, who do not see a net positive in either choice may protest, or gamble. Last election that kind of thing definitely happened. Now, the subtle bit: GOP primary picks are of the voters. Dem ones are not. Party won in court asserting it's right to just select regardless of what voters do. Secondly, money. It is expensive to become a choice. Summary? Voters may be left with two poor choices. Conclusion: Blaming voters is not productive. That really is my only point. Blaming and shaming people does not help matters. The necessary discussion is bigger than that. Worth a bit of karma to plant that seed.
evan_ 7y ago
At least in Alabama, they've been releasing prisoners with medical conditions, so they don't have to treat them. When/if they get better they re-arrest them. https://www.al.com/news/2019/09/alabama-sheriffs-release-sick-dying-inmates-from-jail-to-avoid-paying-their-hospital-bills.html https://www.al.com/news/2019/09/alabama-sheriffs-release-sic...
- trungdq88 7y ago
  This is depressing.
beerandt 7y ago
It might not be their fault for breaking the law in the middle of nowhere, but they did still break the law. Not saying it justifies lack of medical care, I just think you're making an excuse for the wrong "element" of their behavior.
- lazyasciiart 7y ago
  I have no idea what you think I am making an excuse for, but you're wrong.
  - beerandt 7y ago
    >And it isn't a case of 'well migrants cross the border in the middle of nowhere so it's their fault' You say that fault is attributed (by the public or whoever) due to [illegal im-] migrants crossing in the middle of nowhere... Your counter argument is they mostly didn't cross in the middle of nowhere, so it's not their fault they were transferred to the middle of nowhere. It has nothing to do with where they chose to cross the border illegally, people say it's the migrants own fault because they chose to cross the border illegally, period. You don't get to pick a jail when you're arrested, and you shouldn't be surprised to find out that many US immigration jails are along the southern border in the middle of nowhere. They might not have chosen to cross in the middle of nowhere, yet their choices are still what caused them to end up there. Again, this doesn't justify withholding medical care; you just shouldn't be surprised to end up in jail if you break the law, wherever that jail might be.

arcticbull 7y ago

Yes this sounds criminally negligent.

vkou 7y ago

The cruelty isn't an unhappy, accidental by-product. It's the whole point of the policy. This is what ~half the country endorses, by virtue of how it votes.

ddingus 7y ago
Not really. Voters need options to vote for. Money in politics constrains those considerably. Blaming people just does not speak to the mess well enough to be productive.
ddingus 7y ago
Apparently, my earlier message did not resonate: To be absolutely clear, this mess we are in is a function of money in politics, voters not seeing a choice they feel good about, and a general trend toward more authoritarian norms. In any election, voters can and will do one of the following: Vote Major Party Vote other No Vote In the last election, a large number of Americans did not have a choice they felt worthy of a vote. Blaming them does all of us ZERO good. Fear, blame and shame politics do not work to GOTV. We can have a discussion about how we got here, and I think that makes sense to do. It's too easy to just "blame the stupid people", as if that's all there is to any of this.
- lazyasciiart 7y ago
  My guess is that 'half the country' in that comment was supposed to refer to Trump voters, not non-voters.
  - ddingus 7y ago
    That's not half the country.
    - lazyasciiart 7y ago
      No, but it's a pretty common mistake and makes more sense than it being the ones who didn't vote.
      - ddingus 7y ago
        Well, even then I do not know how much better. People, who do not see a net positive in either choice may protest, or gamble. Last election that kind of thing definitely happened. Now, the subtle bit: GOP primary picks are of the voters. Dem ones are not. Party won in court asserting it's right to just select regardless of what voters do. Secondly, money. It is expensive to become a choice. Summary? Voters may be left with two poor choices. Conclusion: Blaming voters is not productive. That really is my only point. Blaming and shaming people does not help matters. The necessary discussion is bigger than that. Worth a bit of karma to plant that seed.

evan_ 7y ago

At least in Alabama, they've been releasing prisoners with medical conditions, so they don't have to treat them. When/if they get better they re-arrest them. https://www.al.com/news/2019/09/alabama-sheriffs-release-sick-dying-inmates-from-jail-to-avoid-paying-their-hospital-bills.html https://www.al.com/news/2019/09/alabama-sheriffs-release-sic...

trungdq88 7y ago
This is depressing.

beerandt 7y ago

It might not be their fault for breaking the law in the middle of nowhere, but they did still break the law. Not saying it justifies lack of medical care, I just think you're making an excuse for the wrong "element" of their behavior.

lazyasciiart 7y ago
I have no idea what you think I am making an excuse for, but you're wrong.
- beerandt 7y ago
  >And it isn't a case of 'well migrants cross the border in the middle of nowhere so it's their fault' You say that fault is attributed (by the public or whoever) due to [illegal im-] migrants crossing in the middle of nowhere... Your counter argument is they mostly didn't cross in the middle of nowhere, so it's not their fault they were transferred to the middle of nowhere. It has nothing to do with where they chose to cross the border illegally, people say it's the migrants own fault because they chose to cross the border illegally, period. You don't get to pick a jail when you're arrested, and you shouldn't be surprised to find out that many US immigration jails are along the southern border in the middle of nowhere. They might not have chosen to cross in the middle of nowhere, yet their choices are still what caused them to end up there. Again, this doesn't justify withholding medical care; you just shouldn't be surprised to end up in jail if you break the law, wherever that jail might be.