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> Not really Yes, really. Those number support my point. The vast majority of CO2 emissions are from countries with "relatively modest" living standards. > Bu

> Not really Yes, really. Those number support my point. The vast majority of CO2 emissions are from countries with "relatively modest" living standards. > But yeah if everyone's going to live like the current US/EU citizen we're fucked for sure no matter how many trees we plant. I guess we're fucked then, right? Because that's the trajectory. > Or we could do both since these things are 100% unrelated and not enough anyway. They're not unrelated at all, because money spent on one thing can't be spent on something else. Furthermore, giving up airplane travel for, say, railroads, is a lowering in standard of living. Investing in infrastructure abroad isn't. > We're all responsible and we can all do better, so let's stop playing dumb games and do what we can. Sure "we" can, but "we" won't, so let's indeed stop playing dumb games of moral posturing and figure out how we can have the best impact without relying on humans suddenly acting in a rational and responsible manner. It's just not going to happen. > It's not like skipping your trip to standard_tourisitic_location_#231, eating less meat, buying local food, using public transportation or buying less useless junk on amazon/ebay is going to turn your life to absolute shit so let's do it Yeah, fuck that. I'm not giving up on any of it. Now what? What are you gonna do about it? Remember, I'm billions of people.

yongjik 7y ago
> Yeah, fuck that. I'm not giving up on any of it. Now what? What are you gonna do about it? Tax.
- gridlockd 7y ago
  > Tax. You know what happens when you tax people too much and they don't like it, right? Otherwise, I'm with you on that one.
lm28469 7y ago
> is a lowering in standard of living Eh, what if we need to lower our living standards ? The earth is a finite space with finite resources. Do you really think we can get 8b people live like the average US/EU citizen ? We can barely do it with < 2b and it's already too much pressure on the environment. What's the end goal ? We all have cars, amazon same day drone delivery, eat meat 3 times per day and go on vacation every 3 months ? Is that humanity's endgame ? Most intelligent specie on earth, intelligent enough to comprehend the issue, too primitive to act on it, if that's humanity's fate it's kind of ironic, I like it in some way. "I want it all today even if it means I won't have anything tomorrow" > Yeah, fuck that. I'm not giving up on any of it. Now what? What are you gonna do about it? Remember, I'm billions of people. I'll be long dead before it starts having real world impacts. But at least I can sleep at night knowing I'm not actively trying to make things worse for future generations. Earth will be fine even if we fuck it up, life will most likely survive and thrive. All in all it wouldn't be that bad, just like when dinosaurs went extinct, but instead of a natural disaster it's mass suicide.
- gridlockd 7y ago
  > The earth is a finite space with finite resources All important resources that are either non-exhaustible or substitutable. While there are certain theoretical limits, there is no limit to economic growth. This is the cornucopian position. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cornucopian https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cornucopian The Malthusian position, held by many scientists who do not actually understand what economic growth actually is, has been shown to be wrong time and time again. > Do you really think we can get 8b people live like the average US/EU citizen ? I believe we can get 80 billion people to live at a standard that far surpasses our current living standards. In due time, that is. > What's the end goal ? I don't know. Fully-Automated Gay Luxury Space Communism? Why does there need to be an end-goal? > We all have cars, amazon same day drone delivery, eat meat 3 times per day and go on vacation every 3 months ? We'll all have space-cars, same hour drone delivery, eat meat every fifteen minutes, and go to work for a week every three months. > But at least I can sleep at night knowing I'm not actively trying to make things worse for future generations. No you can't. What if future generations will think of you as "one of those fucking Malthusians" that held back human development by supporting austerity politics? What if you're completely wrong about all your beliefs about the future, just like Malthus before you?

yongjik 7y ago

> Yeah, fuck that. I'm not giving up on any of it. Now what? What are you gonna do about it? Tax.

gridlockd 7y ago
> Tax. You know what happens when you tax people too much and they don't like it, right? Otherwise, I'm with you on that one.

lm28469 7y ago

> is a lowering in standard of living Eh, what if we need to lower our living standards ? The earth is a finite space with finite resources. Do you really think we can get 8b people live like the average US/EU citizen ? We can barely do it with < 2b and it's already too much pressure on the environment. What's the end goal ? We all have cars, amazon same day drone delivery, eat meat 3 times per day and go on vacation every 3 months ? Is that humanity's endgame ? Most intelligent specie on earth, intelligent enough to comprehend the issue, too primitive to act on it, if that's humanity's fate it's kind of ironic, I like it in some way. "I want it all today even if it means I won't have anything tomorrow" > Yeah, fuck that. I'm not giving up on any of it. Now what? What are you gonna do about it? Remember, I'm billions of people. I'll be long dead before it starts having real world impacts. But at least I can sleep at night knowing I'm not actively trying to make things worse for future generations. Earth will be fine even if we fuck it up, life will most likely survive and thrive. All in all it wouldn't be that bad, just like when dinosaurs went extinct, but instead of a natural disaster it's mass suicide.

gridlockd 7y ago
> The earth is a finite space with finite resources All important resources that are either non-exhaustible or substitutable. While there are certain theoretical limits, there is no limit to economic growth. This is the cornucopian position. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cornucopian https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cornucopian The Malthusian position, held by many scientists who do not actually understand what economic growth actually is, has been shown to be wrong time and time again. > Do you really think we can get 8b people live like the average US/EU citizen ? I believe we can get 80 billion people to live at a standard that far surpasses our current living standards. In due time, that is. > What's the end goal ? I don't know. Fully-Automated Gay Luxury Space Communism? Why does there need to be an end-goal? > We all have cars, amazon same day drone delivery, eat meat 3 times per day and go on vacation every 3 months ? We'll all have space-cars, same hour drone delivery, eat meat every fifteen minutes, and go to work for a week every three months. > But at least I can sleep at night knowing I'm not actively trying to make things worse for future generations. No you can't. What if future generations will think of you as "one of those fucking Malthusians" that held back human development by supporting austerity politics? What if you're completely wrong about all your beliefs about the future, just like Malthus before you?