6 ms·

Why I Resigned from the Gates Foundation

21 points by AndrewBissell 7y ago

srbby 7y ago
When Muslims are problematic wherever they are one has to wonder whether the rest of the world is at fault.
- sabertoothed 7y ago
  Attack bad ideas instead of people.
  - srbby 7y ago
    And what am I doing? Muslims can stop being Muslims if they want to.
    - sabertoothed 7y ago
      There is a subtle but important difference between saying that 'muslims are problematic' and 'islam is problematic'.
- koonsolo 7y ago
  A "peaceful" religion is very relative when the founder had an army and slaves.
  - tabtab 7y ago
    Western civilization is founded on Greco-Roman culture, which was heavily based on slaves. All of civilization had an ugly past.
    - koonsolo 7y ago
      I'm talking about the founders of the religions here, not entire cultures.
      - tabtab 7y ago
        The Bible, including New Testament, doesn't forbid slaves either. It was common and accepted practice in Roman times. If you lose a battle, you become a slave. That was considered a fact life then. (A great motivator to win, I must say.)
        koonsolo 7y ago
        Are you seriously doing your best to completely ignore what I'm saying? I'll make it really straight to the point then: - Did Jesus, the founder of Christianity, lead an army or have slaves? - Did Buddha, the founder of Buddhism, lead an army or have slaves? I'm really curious how you are going to twist these words again, you really seem to be good at it.
  - apta 7y ago
    Peaceful does not mean pacifist, and slavery under Islamic law is not slavery as embodied by the West and other cultures.
- tabtab 7y ago
  I suspect polygamy may be the culprit. It makes males have to be ultra-competitive in order to mate such that they are overly aggressive. If some have multiple wives, it means others have zero wives, since there wouldn't be enough females to go around. When competition becomes all or nothing, mayhem and war are the result. Even if the all-or-nothing competition itself doesn't create more aggressiveness, for the sake of argument, the larger percentage of unmarried men means more men have higher levels of testosterone, being that individual testosterone levels go down once one marries and has kids. That's a medical fact, not speculation. And testosterone on average makes one more aggressive. Thus, the first part of this theory is indeed speculative, but the second part is pretty much a mathematical truth. I'm not trying to offend, just presenting an intriguing theory.
  - plopz 7y ago
    Do you think the same will happen in the west if trends like this continue? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19601600 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19601600
    - tabtab 7y ago
      Could be. The effects are not limited to any religion or culture.
  - belorn 7y ago
    > being that individual testosterone levels go down once one marries and has kids. That's a medical fact, not speculation. And testosterone on average makes one more aggressive. The first part is true, but the later one is false. Testosterone on does not makes one more aggressive, a medical fact researcher started to figure out in the last 30 years or so and have instead found a much better theory what testosterone do and why it so easily get associated with aggression. Testosterone increase the amount of energy a person will spend on defending challenges to social status. Imagine a male baboon that just raised to alpha status of a flock after a difficult and dangerous fight with the previous alpha male. This is the point where testosterone production spikes. If the new alpha male get challenged and loose then any gained chance of mating would be lost. In addition all the energy and risk of injury that was just spent on rising to the top would be wasted effort. A low ranking male baboon however might find a better strategy to lay low and wait for a opportunity, such as the moment after someone above them have just been in a fight. If they get challenged and loose then there isn't as much of a loss. A optimal strategy is thus to modulate how much energy is spent on defense based on how high the probability for mating is and how high the risk is that someone else might try to take it away. The role of testosterone, a sex hormone, should maybe not come as an surprise as being the method in which the body inform itself of this. It also make sense that marriage and having kids reduces the need for high testosterone. You loose social status and the negative effect is not as bad. A better strategy might be to reserve energy and maybe focus on raising the offspring you already have.
- pixelbath 7y ago
  Is the problem here that a person with Islamic beliefs wrote this op-ed? Not sure how well you read the piece, because the actual problem in TFA is the author's assertion that Narendra Modi's Hindu beliefs are responsible for people dying.
- mikelyons 7y ago
  Every powerful tool gets co-opted by devils. The devil is not interested in co-opting weak tools. He want's the most powerful ones. The devil wants to corrupt the highest good, the highest truth. So you proclaiming that you have the highest good and highest truth only attracts the devil closer. By not understanding this, devilry is created.
- dang 7y ago
  Religious flamewar is not ok here. We've banned this account. I had hoped that perhaps you were improving after the last few dozen of your accounts that we've banned. Would you please consider just following the site guidelines? I don't really see what you're getting out of vandalizing HN, or why you would want to create so much extra work for us. It just takes resources away from making HN more interesting, which I assume you must value or you'd be spending your spare hours elsewhere. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
tastygreenapple 7y ago
tl;dr - Butthurt muslim feelings about other people treating Muslims 1% as bad as muslims treat non-muslims.
- dang 7y ago
  We've banned this account for repeatedly posting flamebait to HN and ignoring our requests to stop. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
  - rinchik 7y ago
    I understand that the wording is not very intelligent and even malevolent, and, what is interesting, if you abstract that's how I would imagine an accurate description would sound out of an internet troll's mouth. Narrative and contexts are extremely important, in this case, Islam has been historically (and still is) of the strictest religions (if not The). With precisely described and followed rules for entering (conversion), and exiting (death is the only exit on papers, but majority are quite moderate and the worst you'll get is a disappointed kick in the butt by your family), and about "universal" way everyone should live their live. And specifically due to this "strictness" (easy to convert and "impossible" to break out) we see the "popularity" of this religion on the World's Map, and also due to this "strictness" modern views and prejudices have been formed as it is very easy for a small group of extremists to take it over the top.
    - rinchik 7y ago
      Also history is fascinating! Just a couple centuries ago the roles were reversed! Middle east is the cradle of the math as we know it! While West and Europe were busy with crusades and inquisitions, they were doing math and science in Alexandria. Wonder how things will play out in a couple hundred years from now.
      - ksaj 7y ago
        There are lots of articles about how Americans have become increasingly cynical and dismissive of science. Who knows, maybe another reversal will occur in a hundred or so years, with Americans abandoning science and the Middle East abandoning religion.
devnonymous 7y ago
Why has this been flagged? The article by itself is an interesting nuanced take. Was it flagged due to the extremely poor quality of comments here or due to people down voting the article?
- tabtab 7y ago
  It's a controversial topic. Many of us "westerners" don't "get" some aspects of Muslim culture. It's hard to express the puzzlement in a way that doesn't offend. I do try to ask diplomatically, but my ability to articulate such sticky subject matter in a seamless way is apparently limited. Please have patience.
  - devnonymous 7y ago
    I don't understand your comment. Are we commenting on the same article? As far as I can tell this article is about Modi and how the Gates foundation is wrong in its decision to award Modi. The article speaks about how the Clean India Mission is a farce in reality. It speaks about the NRC which ironically, despite its original intent, ended up rendering a majority of Hindus stateless. It speaks about the completely undemocratic lock down of Kashmir. How is any of this related to Muslim culture? Or do you think any anti Modi article is by some odd definition, decidedly pro Muslim? That's like saying any anti Trump article is definitely anti American. Muslims are referred to almost as many times as Dalit, Christians and Jews. Show we question their culture as well? Don't dress your bigotry in the garb of pseudo intellectualism.
jkoudys 7y ago
It's not something I'd expect most non-Indians to notice immediately, but the whole "politicians promise toilets" thing has been a common scam in India for decades. It's a very easy thing to promise, and frequently half-delivered if at all. Getting a toilet built and safely maintained is almost as rare as a cold-email from Nigeria following through with the million dollars they promised.

21 points by AndrewBissell 7y ago

srbby 7y ago

When Muslims are problematic wherever they are one has to wonder whether the rest of the world is at fault.

sabertoothed 7y ago
Attack bad ideas instead of people.
- srbby 7y ago
  And what am I doing? Muslims can stop being Muslims if they want to.
  - sabertoothed 7y ago
    There is a subtle but important difference between saying that 'muslims are problematic' and 'islam is problematic'.
koonsolo 7y ago
A "peaceful" religion is very relative when the founder had an army and slaves.
- tabtab 7y ago
  Western civilization is founded on Greco-Roman culture, which was heavily based on slaves. All of civilization had an ugly past.
  - koonsolo 7y ago
    I'm talking about the founders of the religions here, not entire cultures.
    - tabtab 7y ago
      The Bible, including New Testament, doesn't forbid slaves either. It was common and accepted practice in Roman times. If you lose a battle, you become a slave. That was considered a fact life then. (A great motivator to win, I must say.)
      - koonsolo 7y ago
        Are you seriously doing your best to completely ignore what I'm saying? I'll make it really straight to the point then: - Did Jesus, the founder of Christianity, lead an army or have slaves? - Did Buddha, the founder of Buddhism, lead an army or have slaves? I'm really curious how you are going to twist these words again, you really seem to be good at it.
- apta 7y ago
  Peaceful does not mean pacifist, and slavery under Islamic law is not slavery as embodied by the West and other cultures.
tabtab 7y ago
I suspect polygamy may be the culprit. It makes males have to be ultra-competitive in order to mate such that they are overly aggressive. If some have multiple wives, it means others have zero wives, since there wouldn't be enough females to go around. When competition becomes all or nothing, mayhem and war are the result. Even if the all-or-nothing competition itself doesn't create more aggressiveness, for the sake of argument, the larger percentage of unmarried men means more men have higher levels of testosterone, being that individual testosterone levels go down once one marries and has kids. That's a medical fact, not speculation. And testosterone on average makes one more aggressive. Thus, the first part of this theory is indeed speculative, but the second part is pretty much a mathematical truth. I'm not trying to offend, just presenting an intriguing theory.
- plopz 7y ago
  Do you think the same will happen in the west if trends like this continue? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19601600 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19601600
  - tabtab 7y ago
    Could be. The effects are not limited to any religion or culture.
- belorn 7y ago
  > being that individual testosterone levels go down once one marries and has kids. That's a medical fact, not speculation. And testosterone on average makes one more aggressive. The first part is true, but the later one is false. Testosterone on does not makes one more aggressive, a medical fact researcher started to figure out in the last 30 years or so and have instead found a much better theory what testosterone do and why it so easily get associated with aggression. Testosterone increase the amount of energy a person will spend on defending challenges to social status. Imagine a male baboon that just raised to alpha status of a flock after a difficult and dangerous fight with the previous alpha male. This is the point where testosterone production spikes. If the new alpha male get challenged and loose then any gained chance of mating would be lost. In addition all the energy and risk of injury that was just spent on rising to the top would be wasted effort. A low ranking male baboon however might find a better strategy to lay low and wait for a opportunity, such as the moment after someone above them have just been in a fight. If they get challenged and loose then there isn't as much of a loss. A optimal strategy is thus to modulate how much energy is spent on defense based on how high the probability for mating is and how high the risk is that someone else might try to take it away. The role of testosterone, a sex hormone, should maybe not come as an surprise as being the method in which the body inform itself of this. It also make sense that marriage and having kids reduces the need for high testosterone. You loose social status and the negative effect is not as bad. A better strategy might be to reserve energy and maybe focus on raising the offspring you already have.
pixelbath 7y ago
Is the problem here that a person with Islamic beliefs wrote this op-ed? Not sure how well you read the piece, because the actual problem in TFA is the author's assertion that Narendra Modi's Hindu beliefs are responsible for people dying.
mikelyons 7y ago
Every powerful tool gets co-opted by devils. The devil is not interested in co-opting weak tools. He want's the most powerful ones. The devil wants to corrupt the highest good, the highest truth. So you proclaiming that you have the highest good and highest truth only attracts the devil closer. By not understanding this, devilry is created.
dang 7y ago
Religious flamewar is not ok here. We've banned this account. I had hoped that perhaps you were improving after the last few dozen of your accounts that we've banned. Would you please consider just following the site guidelines? I don't really see what you're getting out of vandalizing HN, or why you would want to create so much extra work for us. It just takes resources away from making HN more interesting, which I assume you must value or you'd be spending your spare hours elsewhere. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

tastygreenapple 7y ago

tl;dr - Butthurt muslim feelings about other people treating Muslims 1% as bad as muslims treat non-muslims.

dang 7y ago
We've banned this account for repeatedly posting flamebait to HN and ignoring our requests to stop. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- rinchik 7y ago
  I understand that the wording is not very intelligent and even malevolent, and, what is interesting, if you abstract that's how I would imagine an accurate description would sound out of an internet troll's mouth. Narrative and contexts are extremely important, in this case, Islam has been historically (and still is) of the strictest religions (if not The). With precisely described and followed rules for entering (conversion), and exiting (death is the only exit on papers, but majority are quite moderate and the worst you'll get is a disappointed kick in the butt by your family), and about "universal" way everyone should live their live. And specifically due to this "strictness" (easy to convert and "impossible" to break out) we see the "popularity" of this religion on the World's Map, and also due to this "strictness" modern views and prejudices have been formed as it is very easy for a small group of extremists to take it over the top.
  - rinchik 7y ago
    Also history is fascinating! Just a couple centuries ago the roles were reversed! Middle east is the cradle of the math as we know it! While West and Europe were busy with crusades and inquisitions, they were doing math and science in Alexandria. Wonder how things will play out in a couple hundred years from now.
    - ksaj 7y ago
      There are lots of articles about how Americans have become increasingly cynical and dismissive of science. Who knows, maybe another reversal will occur in a hundred or so years, with Americans abandoning science and the Middle East abandoning religion.

devnonymous 7y ago

Why has this been flagged? The article by itself is an interesting nuanced take. Was it flagged due to the extremely poor quality of comments here or due to people down voting the article?

tabtab 7y ago
It's a controversial topic. Many of us "westerners" don't "get" some aspects of Muslim culture. It's hard to express the puzzlement in a way that doesn't offend. I do try to ask diplomatically, but my ability to articulate such sticky subject matter in a seamless way is apparently limited. Please have patience.
- devnonymous 7y ago
  I don't understand your comment. Are we commenting on the same article? As far as I can tell this article is about Modi and how the Gates foundation is wrong in its decision to award Modi. The article speaks about how the Clean India Mission is a farce in reality. It speaks about the NRC which ironically, despite its original intent, ended up rendering a majority of Hindus stateless. It speaks about the completely undemocratic lock down of Kashmir. How is any of this related to Muslim culture? Or do you think any anti Modi article is by some odd definition, decidedly pro Muslim? That's like saying any anti Trump article is definitely anti American. Muslims are referred to almost as many times as Dalit, Christians and Jews. Show we question their culture as well? Don't dress your bigotry in the garb of pseudo intellectualism.

jkoudys 7y ago

It's not something I'd expect most non-Indians to notice immediately, but the whole "politicians promise toilets" thing has been a common scam in India for decades. It's a very easy thing to promise, and frequently half-delivered if at all. Getting a toilet built and safely maintained is almost as rare as a cold-email from Nigeria following through with the million dollars they promised.