3 ms·

The main argument for the F-35's stealth is to avoid target locking missiles. It's not to be "invisible".

by akvadrako 7y ago

SiempreViernes 7y ago
How does low radar observatbility help against IR missiles?
- 0003 7y ago
  IR is only really effective in the short-range (see an aim-9 which is only effective less than 20 nm (really less than that practically speaking). When they talk about this, they mean protection against beyond visual range missiles.
  - hguant 7y ago
    >(see an aim-9 which is only effective less than 20 nm (really less than that practically speaking) I would really love to see the actual Probability of Kill numbers for the US missile fleet. I know that's never going to happen/they're going to remain classified for a _long_ time, but the kid in me really wants to know "does it actually work?"
    - 0003 7y ago
      You tend to get the results from who we sell the missiles too. Ironically, I believe Iran has the most kills for the F-14 / AIM-54 missile, which had a whopping 100nm range. Then, I think Israel has been demonstrating the most combat effectiveness of the the F-35 in attacks in Syria... Air-combat is "hard" to answer the "does it actually work" because it is very much like high stakes chess in the air. A lot of times you fire 1 missile to make the bogey defensive, and multiple missiles to kill. This gets even more complicated when you factor in differences in pilot skill, numbers, chaff, and electronic counter measures.
      - stallmanite 7y ago
        nm here I’m guessing is nautical miles? Nanometer range missiles would be tricky to wage war with.
- vonmoltke 7y ago
  IR seekers have very (in air-air combat terms) short effective range, ~25km at best. Thus, a missile with an IR terminal-stage seeker needs to either be launched from close range (which would indicate the F-35 was probably detected via Mark 1 Eyeball) or the missile needs to be guided into range by radar. Guiding the missile that way involves painting the target with a fire control radar and having a passive radar seeker on the missile follow the return. Reduced radar signature obviously helps in the second case. Edit: fixed seeker range
  - dx034 7y ago
    But in this case passive radar would help enormously? It could detect the aircraft and help to launch an IR missile, effectively rendering the stealth capabilities useless. Deployed at borders, it could provide good air defense against F35. You obviously need strong signals for passive radar to work but those could be positioned inland and they don't need to be where the passive radar is, making it harder to disable it.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
braythwayt 7y ago
That is a very interesting perspective, thank you for sharing it.

The main argument for the F-35's stealth is to avoid target locking missiles. It's not to be "invisible".

SiempreViernes 7y ago

How does low radar observatbility help against IR missiles?

0003 7y ago
IR is only really effective in the short-range (see an aim-9 which is only effective less than 20 nm (really less than that practically speaking). When they talk about this, they mean protection against beyond visual range missiles.
- hguant 7y ago
  >(see an aim-9 which is only effective less than 20 nm (really less than that practically speaking) I would really love to see the actual Probability of Kill numbers for the US missile fleet. I know that's never going to happen/they're going to remain classified for a _long_ time, but the kid in me really wants to know "does it actually work?"
  - 0003 7y ago
    You tend to get the results from who we sell the missiles too. Ironically, I believe Iran has the most kills for the F-14 / AIM-54 missile, which had a whopping 100nm range. Then, I think Israel has been demonstrating the most combat effectiveness of the the F-35 in attacks in Syria... Air-combat is "hard" to answer the "does it actually work" because it is very much like high stakes chess in the air. A lot of times you fire 1 missile to make the bogey defensive, and multiple missiles to kill. This gets even more complicated when you factor in differences in pilot skill, numbers, chaff, and electronic counter measures.
    - stallmanite 7y ago
      nm here I’m guessing is nautical miles? Nanometer range missiles would be tricky to wage war with.
vonmoltke 7y ago
IR seekers have very (in air-air combat terms) short effective range, ~25km at best. Thus, a missile with an IR terminal-stage seeker needs to either be launched from close range (which would indicate the F-35 was probably detected via Mark 1 Eyeball) or the missile needs to be guided into range by radar. Guiding the missile that way involves painting the target with a fire control radar and having a passive radar seeker on the missile follow the return. Reduced radar signature obviously helps in the second case. Edit: fixed seeker range
- dx034 7y ago
  But in this case passive radar would help enormously? It could detect the aircraft and help to launch an IR missile, effectively rendering the stealth capabilities useless. Deployed at borders, it could provide good air defense against F35. You obviously need strong signals for passive radar to work but those could be positioned inland and they don't need to be where the passive radar is, making it harder to disable it.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]

braythwayt 7y ago

That is a very interesting perspective, thank you for sharing it.