7 ms·

I feel bad for the stary-eyed kids one year out of college that are going to get mass fired. They're all really young and naive :/

by ixtli 7y ago

dsfyu404ed 7y ago
Hopefully they'll learn something from it. Losing a job really isn't the end of the world if you don't have a mortgage and a family (which will be the case for most entry level hires).
- inscionent 7y ago
  Losing your job is never the end of the world; no matter your indebtedness to a bank.
  - ghaff 7y ago
    It's not the end of the world but you may be in a position where you really do need to take something/anything. Which during times such as 2001 wasn't necessarily anything related to what you studied in school. A lot of underemployed engineers and others in the tech sector (and elsewhere).
JumpCrisscross 7y ago
> They're all really young and naive And now they'll be a little less of each. The lessons they can learn from this experience could put them ahead of the pack. We have an entire generation that knows nothing but post-crisis bull markets. When the next downturn comes, those tempered by bad experiences have the opportunity to position defensively and react nimbly. (Or at least more defensively and nimbler than their peers.)
- vkou 7y ago
  Could you define: "Position yourself defensively and react nimbly" means to an IC?
  - JumpCrisscross 7y ago
    > Could you define: "Position yourself defensively and react nimbly" means to an IC? Depends on specifics. Broadly speaking, having been an IC, the lessons I learned the hard way were: (1) Pay your taxes early and often. Keep your credit and channels open fixed-cost obligations low. (Nimble and defensive.) (2) Save aggressively. Rule-of-thumb liquidity advice doesn't apply to you; I learned to keep 2 years of cash in Treasuries et cetera. (Defensive.) (3) If you can't do (2), favor full-time offers, even those with lower face-value economics. (Defensive.) (4) Don't over-negotiate. (Nimble.) (5) Don't feel overly committed to your current gig(s). You can keep grabbing drinks with old colleagues from your new job. When the ship goes down, the captain gets commended for going down with it; everyone else just drowns. (Nimble.)
    - wil421 7y ago
      How does an Individual Contributor (IC) have to worry about paying taxes? I’ve never worked at a company and had to worry about the timing of my taxes. Save enough for 2 years? Only a very small percent could actually save 2 years worth of salary. For a family I’m not sure if anyone able to do this. The standard advice is 6 months.
      - foobiekr 7y ago
        People with windfalls are often surprised how much they owe. As an example, below 1M, I am told, Uber only withheld 25% from vested (taxable) RSU grants. It was worse in 1999. I knew a few people who blew everything they took out at 1Y with the expectation there was more to come. They ended up with significant tax debt due to under withholding once the market crashed and there wasn’t more to come.
      - vkou 7y ago
        > Save enough for 2 years? Only a very small percent could actually save 2 years worth of salary. For a family I’m not sure if anyone able to do this. The standard advice is 6 months. You don't need to save 2 years of salary. You need to save 2 years of your expenses. As a SWE, you make at least ~3x what lower-income people in your area make. If you live with the same expenses as those people, you should be saving 2 years of expenses, every year that you work. It's clearly possible to live that way - most people do it just fine. If, however, you are a good participant in the consumer economy, and spend every dollar that you make (and two pennies besides), a downturn may be tough to weather. You might even have to... not renew the lease on that second Tesla.
- foobiekr 7y ago
  It is honestly better to be on the leading edge of the curve than on the trailing edge. People who got culled early in the dotcom did ok since the cross company hiring freeze wasn’t yet in effect. They took a hit but found more secure jobs earlier. The people a bit later went a year unable to find jobs.
phamilton 7y ago
At Yahoo (I joined via acquisition) we had a mass layoff a few months after our 1 year vesting cliff (so we were all interviewing and planning to leave). A few people already had offers in hand but hadn't given notice and were laid off. They were so excited. Meanwhile, the new grad got laid off and was blinking back tears. It sucked. I left a month later and even though I told management I was looking they chose to keep me for a month and cut the kid who actually wanted to work there.
einpoklum 7y ago
"Starry-eyed kids" who went to work for a company which is a glorified landlord for office space? Somehow I doubt they had a bright and hopeful vision for humanity in mind when they joined up.
eternalny1 7y ago
That was all I could think about when following this. I've been a developer for a long time and I know how this story is going to end. In early, the IPO, those shares, the money! Nope, please have your stuff packed by 2 PM and security will see you out.

I feel bad for the stary-eyed kids one year out of college that are going to get mass fired. They're all really young and naive :/

by ixtli 7y ago

I feel bad for the stary-eyed kids one year out of college that are going to get mass fired. They're all really young and naive :/

dsfyu404ed 7y ago

Hopefully they'll learn something from it. Losing a job really isn't the end of the world if you don't have a mortgage and a family (which will be the case for most entry level hires).

inscionent 7y ago
Losing your job is never the end of the world; no matter your indebtedness to a bank.
- ghaff 7y ago
  It's not the end of the world but you may be in a position where you really do need to take something/anything. Which during times such as 2001 wasn't necessarily anything related to what you studied in school. A lot of underemployed engineers and others in the tech sector (and elsewhere).

JumpCrisscross 7y ago

> They're all really young and naive And now they'll be a little less of each. The lessons they can learn from this experience could put them ahead of the pack. We have an entire generation that knows nothing but post-crisis bull markets. When the next downturn comes, those tempered by bad experiences have the opportunity to position defensively and react nimbly. (Or at least more defensively and nimbler than their peers.)

vkou 7y ago
Could you define: "Position yourself defensively and react nimbly" means to an IC?
- JumpCrisscross 7y ago
  > Could you define: "Position yourself defensively and react nimbly" means to an IC? Depends on specifics. Broadly speaking, having been an IC, the lessons I learned the hard way were: (1) Pay your taxes early and often. Keep your credit and channels open fixed-cost obligations low. (Nimble and defensive.) (2) Save aggressively. Rule-of-thumb liquidity advice doesn't apply to you; I learned to keep 2 years of cash in Treasuries et cetera. (Defensive.) (3) If you can't do (2), favor full-time offers, even those with lower face-value economics. (Defensive.) (4) Don't over-negotiate. (Nimble.) (5) Don't feel overly committed to your current gig(s). You can keep grabbing drinks with old colleagues from your new job. When the ship goes down, the captain gets commended for going down with it; everyone else just drowns. (Nimble.)
  - wil421 7y ago
    How does an Individual Contributor (IC) have to worry about paying taxes? I’ve never worked at a company and had to worry about the timing of my taxes. Save enough for 2 years? Only a very small percent could actually save 2 years worth of salary. For a family I’m not sure if anyone able to do this. The standard advice is 6 months.
    - foobiekr 7y ago
      People with windfalls are often surprised how much they owe. As an example, below 1M, I am told, Uber only withheld 25% from vested (taxable) RSU grants. It was worse in 1999. I knew a few people who blew everything they took out at 1Y with the expectation there was more to come. They ended up with significant tax debt due to under withholding once the market crashed and there wasn’t more to come.
    - vkou 7y ago
      > Save enough for 2 years? Only a very small percent could actually save 2 years worth of salary. For a family I’m not sure if anyone able to do this. The standard advice is 6 months. You don't need to save 2 years of salary. You need to save 2 years of your expenses. As a SWE, you make at least ~3x what lower-income people in your area make. If you live with the same expenses as those people, you should be saving 2 years of expenses, every year that you work. It's clearly possible to live that way - most people do it just fine. If, however, you are a good participant in the consumer economy, and spend every dollar that you make (and two pennies besides), a downturn may be tough to weather. You might even have to... not renew the lease on that second Tesla.
foobiekr 7y ago
It is honestly better to be on the leading edge of the curve than on the trailing edge. People who got culled early in the dotcom did ok since the cross company hiring freeze wasn’t yet in effect. They took a hit but found more secure jobs earlier. The people a bit later went a year unable to find jobs.

phamilton 7y ago

At Yahoo (I joined via acquisition) we had a mass layoff a few months after our 1 year vesting cliff (so we were all interviewing and planning to leave). A few people already had offers in hand but hadn't given notice and were laid off. They were so excited. Meanwhile, the new grad got laid off and was blinking back tears. It sucked. I left a month later and even though I told management I was looking they chose to keep me for a month and cut the kid who actually wanted to work there.

einpoklum 7y ago

"Starry-eyed kids" who went to work for a company which is a glorified landlord for office space? Somehow I doubt they had a bright and hopeful vision for humanity in mind when they joined up.

eternalny1 7y ago

That was all I could think about when following this. I've been a developer for a long time and I know how this story is going to end. In early, the IPO, those shares, the money! Nope, please have your stuff packed by 2 PM and security will see you out.