8 ms·

When I was a child, my parents were in a dooms-day cult. When people threaten your future with vague notions of impending, and irrevocable doom, there is only

When I was a child, my parents were in a dooms-day cult. When people threaten your future with vague notions of impending, and irrevocable doom, there is only one answer: Live for today. Why don't climate dooms-dayers not see that their very tactics of spreading irrational fear (instead of rational solutions) is antithetical to their desired outcomes? (there's a post about planting trees I haven't read yet, seems reasonable to do _something_ that everyone agrees with instead of trying to ram down ideas very few people agree with)

rcMgD2BwE72F 7y ago
>seems reasonable to do _something_ that everyone agrees with So people will do something that has very little effect on the problem, feel good for their contributions. Then, people will learn than this "something" had no meaningful impact, feel betrayed ("but we agreed on this"), and give up. "Oh, come on, I already did "something". They'll wait for someone else to pickup the burden. That would be big waste of time and energy.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
reallydontask 7y ago
Do you not worry about the world you will be leaving behind for your children? or nephews/nieces? or just the rest of humanity that will come after you? Surely, I can't be alone in this.
avar 7y ago
The Paris Agreement, as part of the way as that's going to get us, is by-and-large being globally implemented. Rising awareness about climate change has contributed to pushing for all sort of policies from more fuel-efficient cars, to state subsidies in dozens of countries for things like renewable energy, electric cars etc. If your view of people pushing for something being done about climate change is that of a dooms-day cult you're going to have to admit that it's a rather politically successful cult.
lordfoom 7y ago
>Why don't climate dooms-dayers not see that their very tactics of spreading irrational fear (instead of rational solutions) is antithetical to their desired outcomes? It's not irrational fear. Why do cynical eye-rollers like you always try and crab bucket people's attempts at changing things for the better?
- justsubmit 7y ago
  From the other perspective, it's yours that is cynical (saying that we're all going to die in a few years), and its yours that is crab-bucketing us into the past (stop eating meat, stop flying airplanes, stop driving cars, stop taking holidays, even stop watching YouTube[0]). How far back down the technology tree are we supposed to go? 0: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJn6pja_l8s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJn6pja_l8s "Climate crisis: the unsustainable use of online video"
- all_usernames 7y ago
  It's an interesting and valid point, I think. Fear may motivate some to start changing and looking for solutions, but it has the opposite effect on many: denial is one of the most pervasive defense mechanisms in psychology. And climate denialism has got to be the most astounding example of it.
lm28469 7y ago
> Live for today. Isn't that the cause of the issue though ? "Who cares about 100+ years in the future, my v8 mustang and my weekly plane trips are pretty convenient, and planting a tree won't change much anyway, and china is doing anyway, plus if I'm the only one doing it it won't help that much, and &c." > seems reasonable to do _something_ that everyone agrees with instead of trying to ram down ideas very few people agree with) The problem is that the things most countries agreed on are not nearly enough and even if they were almost none of the goals are met.
- gridlockd 7y ago
  > Isn't that the cause of the issue though ? "Who cares about 100+ years in the future, my v8 mustang and my weekly plane trips are pretty convenient, and planting a tree won't change much anyway, and china is doing anyway, plus if I'm the only one doing it it won't help that much, and &c." This is a caricature with little bearing on reality. Indeed, the biggest share of CO2 emissions isn't due to "rich Americans" living wasteful lifestyles, but people in emerging economies living a comparably modest lifestyle. That's what makes this problem extremely difficult. We would have to deny those people the lifestyle that we enjoyed for the past 50+ years. We could achieve far more by, say, investing into replacing more primitive power generation in those countries than replacing inner-country air travel with more primitive transport. > The problem is that the things most countries agreed on are not nearly enough and even if they were almost none of the goals are met. Of course, moral posturing costs nothing. When you actually try to do something as political leader, such as putting a tax on fuels as Macron did, chaos ensues.
  - lm28469 7y ago
    > Indeed, the biggest share of CO2 emissions isn't due to "rich Americans" living wasteful lifestyles, but people in emerging economies living a comparably modest lifestyle. Not really https://www.ucsusa.org/global-warming/science-and-impacts/science/each-countrys-share-of-co2.html https://www.ucsusa.org/global-warming/science-and-impacts/sc... > We would have to deny those people the lifestyle that we enjoyed for the past 50+ years. It's not like they have to go through the industrial revolution 1800s UK style to attain our level, we have the tech (and they're using it, solar/wind is becoming extremely competitive for example, hell even nuclear is better than coal/gas). But yeah if everyone's going to live like the current US/EU citizen we're fucked for sure no matter how many trees we plant. > We could achieve far more by, say, investing into replacing more primitive power generation in those countries than replacing inner-country air travel with more primitive transport. Or we could do both since these things are 100% unrelated and not enough anyway. We're all responsible and we can all do better, so let's stop playing dumb games and do what we can. It's not like skipping your trip to standard_tourisitic_location_#231, eating less meat, buying local food, using public transportation or buying less useless junk on amazon/ebay is going to turn your life to absolute shit so let's do it ... Yes cargo ships, asian factories, saudi's oil fields, pollute a lot, but guess who's profiting from them... Don't you see the big picture ? How do you think your colombian coffee, ecuadorian bananas, chinese phones, thai clothes, saudi's gas, japanese cameras are made / get to you to you ? "Yelp, it's not me, it's the chinese/indians/saudis, look at the stats!!!". It feels like talking about pollution is like asking your 8 years old to do his homework, "I'll do it in an hour".
emptyfile 7y ago
Irrational fear? Climate change is an irrational fear in America? Just drives home how late we are to do anything about it. If Americans, the richest most polluting people on earth can't be persuaded to release less CO2, good luck convincing a citizen of India or Indonesia to do the same. And apparently a sizeable part of the population thinks that planting trees or buying a few Teslas will solve it.
- whatshisface 7y ago
  The fear of climate change ruining life in America is irrational, because America is the richest country in the world and will probably be able to push most of the bad effects off on other people. Even if climate change destroys trillions of dollars the US will still have trillions left. Americans should be thinking in terms of spending a few billion now to save a few trillion later, not in terms of an existential crisis for the human race.
asokoloski 7y ago
One tactic that seems like it will be very effective is to call or write your congressperson to let them know that you support H.R. 763. The bill has support from economists and scientists alike. It's designed not just to reduce greenhouse gas emissions, but to do it in a way that minimizes impact on the economy, and also provides an incentive for other countries to pass similar legislation (by imposing tariffs on imports from countries that don't).
- sauwan 7y ago
  More info here: https://citizensclimatelobby.org/energy-innovation-and-carbon-dividend-act/ https://citizensclimatelobby.org/energy-innovation-and-carbo...

rcMgD2BwE72F 7y ago

>seems reasonable to do _something_ that everyone agrees with So people will do something that has very little effect on the problem, feel good for their contributions. Then, people will learn than this "something" had no meaningful impact, feel betrayed ("but we agreed on this"), and give up. "Oh, come on, I already did "something". They'll wait for someone else to pickup the burden. That would be big waste of time and energy.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

reallydontask 7y ago

Do you not worry about the world you will be leaving behind for your children? or nephews/nieces? or just the rest of humanity that will come after you? Surely, I can't be alone in this.

avar 7y ago

The Paris Agreement, as part of the way as that's going to get us, is by-and-large being globally implemented. Rising awareness about climate change has contributed to pushing for all sort of policies from more fuel-efficient cars, to state subsidies in dozens of countries for things like renewable energy, electric cars etc. If your view of people pushing for something being done about climate change is that of a dooms-day cult you're going to have to admit that it's a rather politically successful cult.

lordfoom 7y ago

>Why don't climate dooms-dayers not see that their very tactics of spreading irrational fear (instead of rational solutions) is antithetical to their desired outcomes? It's not irrational fear. Why do cynical eye-rollers like you always try and crab bucket people's attempts at changing things for the better?

justsubmit 7y ago
From the other perspective, it's yours that is cynical (saying that we're all going to die in a few years), and its yours that is crab-bucketing us into the past (stop eating meat, stop flying airplanes, stop driving cars, stop taking holidays, even stop watching YouTube[0]). How far back down the technology tree are we supposed to go? 0: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJn6pja_l8s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJn6pja_l8s "Climate crisis: the unsustainable use of online video"
all_usernames 7y ago
It's an interesting and valid point, I think. Fear may motivate some to start changing and looking for solutions, but it has the opposite effect on many: denial is one of the most pervasive defense mechanisms in psychology. And climate denialism has got to be the most astounding example of it.

lm28469 7y ago

> Live for today. Isn't that the cause of the issue though ? "Who cares about 100+ years in the future, my v8 mustang and my weekly plane trips are pretty convenient, and planting a tree won't change much anyway, and china is doing anyway, plus if I'm the only one doing it it won't help that much, and &c." > seems reasonable to do _something_ that everyone agrees with instead of trying to ram down ideas very few people agree with) The problem is that the things most countries agreed on are not nearly enough and even if they were almost none of the goals are met.

gridlockd 7y ago
> Isn't that the cause of the issue though ? "Who cares about 100+ years in the future, my v8 mustang and my weekly plane trips are pretty convenient, and planting a tree won't change much anyway, and china is doing anyway, plus if I'm the only one doing it it won't help that much, and &c." This is a caricature with little bearing on reality. Indeed, the biggest share of CO2 emissions isn't due to "rich Americans" living wasteful lifestyles, but people in emerging economies living a comparably modest lifestyle. That's what makes this problem extremely difficult. We would have to deny those people the lifestyle that we enjoyed for the past 50+ years. We could achieve far more by, say, investing into replacing more primitive power generation in those countries than replacing inner-country air travel with more primitive transport. > The problem is that the things most countries agreed on are not nearly enough and even if they were almost none of the goals are met. Of course, moral posturing costs nothing. When you actually try to do something as political leader, such as putting a tax on fuels as Macron did, chaos ensues.
- lm28469 7y ago
  > Indeed, the biggest share of CO2 emissions isn't due to "rich Americans" living wasteful lifestyles, but people in emerging economies living a comparably modest lifestyle. Not really https://www.ucsusa.org/global-warming/science-and-impacts/science/each-countrys-share-of-co2.html https://www.ucsusa.org/global-warming/science-and-impacts/sc... > We would have to deny those people the lifestyle that we enjoyed for the past 50+ years. It's not like they have to go through the industrial revolution 1800s UK style to attain our level, we have the tech (and they're using it, solar/wind is becoming extremely competitive for example, hell even nuclear is better than coal/gas). But yeah if everyone's going to live like the current US/EU citizen we're fucked for sure no matter how many trees we plant. > We could achieve far more by, say, investing into replacing more primitive power generation in those countries than replacing inner-country air travel with more primitive transport. Or we could do both since these things are 100% unrelated and not enough anyway. We're all responsible and we can all do better, so let's stop playing dumb games and do what we can. It's not like skipping your trip to standard_tourisitic_location_#231, eating less meat, buying local food, using public transportation or buying less useless junk on amazon/ebay is going to turn your life to absolute shit so let's do it ... Yes cargo ships, asian factories, saudi's oil fields, pollute a lot, but guess who's profiting from them... Don't you see the big picture ? How do you think your colombian coffee, ecuadorian bananas, chinese phones, thai clothes, saudi's gas, japanese cameras are made / get to you to you ? "Yelp, it's not me, it's the chinese/indians/saudis, look at the stats!!!". It feels like talking about pollution is like asking your 8 years old to do his homework, "I'll do it in an hour".

emptyfile 7y ago

Irrational fear? Climate change is an irrational fear in America? Just drives home how late we are to do anything about it. If Americans, the richest most polluting people on earth can't be persuaded to release less CO2, good luck convincing a citizen of India or Indonesia to do the same. And apparently a sizeable part of the population thinks that planting trees or buying a few Teslas will solve it.

whatshisface 7y ago
The fear of climate change ruining life in America is irrational, because America is the richest country in the world and will probably be able to push most of the bad effects off on other people. Even if climate change destroys trillions of dollars the US will still have trillions left. Americans should be thinking in terms of spending a few billion now to save a few trillion later, not in terms of an existential crisis for the human race.

asokoloski 7y ago

One tactic that seems like it will be very effective is to call or write your congressperson to let them know that you support H.R. 763. The bill has support from economists and scientists alike. It's designed not just to reduce greenhouse gas emissions, but to do it in a way that minimizes impact on the economy, and also provides an incentive for other countries to pass similar legislation (by imposing tariffs on imports from countries that don't).

sauwan 7y ago
More info here: https://citizensclimatelobby.org/energy-innovation-and-carbon-dividend-act/ https://citizensclimatelobby.org/energy-innovation-and-carbo...