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One thing that mystifies me is why the general population thinks that uniformed PsyOps people are like a real-life version of Kilgrave from Jessica Jones. They'

One thing that mystifies me is why the general population thinks that uniformed PsyOps people are like a real-life version of Kilgrave from Jessica Jones. They're basically the military's version of PR reps; most of their time is spent doing stuff like making fliers and taking photos of bags of rice being handed out. Maybe once in a while they get to blast Slayer at a building of holed-up insurgents. Meanwhile all the HN comments treating this guy like he's using Twitter as a cover to put LSD in the Saudis' water supply or some shit.

5trokerac3 7y ago
PsyOps main job is convincing occupied peoples that the occupier is their friend. One of the ways they do that is by taking photos of bags of rice being handed out. They also actively work to spread (dis)information.
- doktrin 7y ago
  So, like a PR rep?
  - umeshunni 7y ago
    Which also happens to be his role at Twitter, never mind the clickbait "Executive" in the headline.
  - ratacat 7y ago
    The term public relations was actually an explicit rebranding of the term Propaganda after it started to develop a negative association in the public eye. Look up Edward Bernays, it's a fascinating bit of history that's not really talked about much. http://theconversation.com/the-manipulation-of-the-american-mind-edward-bernays-and-the-birth-of-public-relations-44393 http://theconversation.com/the-manipulation-of-the-american-...
    - throwaway829 7y ago
      If you're into documentaries, "The Century of the Self" covers this subject excellently: https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=century+of+self https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=century+of+self
      - news_hacker 7y ago
        One of my favorite documentaries! It didn't just give me new knowledge, but re-framed the way I view & process future knowledge.
  - markdown 7y ago
    If they're on "our" side, we call them PR reps, yes.
- a012 7y ago
  In the other word: propaganda machine.
- dogma1138 7y ago
  You’ve seen one too many movies, mostly they are doing about the same job as brand influencers just their brand is HMAF in this case.
  - Cpoll 7y ago
    What part of the parent post is movie-like? I may be too cynical, but I don't see a difference between "the same job as brand influencers" and "spread (dis)information"
    - dogma1138 7y ago
      Because most of their job isn’t spreading disinformation but rather providing good PR for recruitment at home or in the Middle East countering the disinformation campaigns that the likes of ISIS run unless you think that their recruitment operations are not disinformation. The British army information warfare unit also famously runs the BBC radio relay station in Cyprus providing access to the Middle East and parts of Asia.
      - vkou 7y ago
        What makes you think the good PR is not disinformation?
      - 5trokerac3 7y ago
        "Good PR" is also seen as the lack of bad PR. Like when we drop a bomb on a school and kill a bunch of kids. PsyOps are the ones who pay off the village.
  - 5trokerac3 7y ago
    No, I was stationed as security for a PsyOps team in Gardez, Afghanistan for four months in 2003.
    - diminoten 7y ago
      Sounds like one particular viewpoint that, while somewhat relevant, doesn't actually shed much light into this vastly different (both geographically and temporally) situation. Don't close your mind just because you know of one instance of the thing being discussed; you anchor yourself to a specific point in time.
colordrops 7y ago
Whether it's fliers or LSD the intention is the same. And sometimes it does end up being worse than LSD, such as gun fire and cluster bombs.
- dfsegoat 7y ago
  "kinetic operations" (read: shooting) are not generally within the purview of Psychological Operations units... Do you have any cites to support your claim?
  - colordrops 7y ago
    It should be obvious that my point is that it's one organization with a unified purpose regardless of what unit they are part of.
    - tptacek 7y ago
      It was not at all obvious, and further, you made a claim ("gun fire and cluster bombs") that implied you had some direct knowledge of the topic. Do you, or did your claim just sound right to your ears?
      - colordrops 7y ago
        Are you at all serious in implying that military propaganda and warfare aren't obviously related?
im3w1l 7y ago
Remember when Facebook experimented with mass emotional manipulation by boosting negative/positive content? That's one thing I'd expect a psyop guy might do. Another is boost posts from allies and demote posts from enemies.
Synaesthesia 7y ago
Public relations is simply the modern terminology for propaganda. He is a military propaganda officer.
ptero 7y ago
Not sure about the general population, but folks here are largely zeroing in on the conflict of interest issues. At least in the US, I would expect serving "PsyOps" people to be government employees, supported by taxes and subject to general oversight that taxpayers (at least in theory) should be able to exercise. I would have no problems if he went to Twitter after retiring, but I see such double-dipping as a current gov't employee as a big problem. My 2c.
- vonmoltke 7y ago
  So, do you think the entire concept of reservists should be abolished?
- chrissnell 7y ago
  What? I am a US Army Reserve officer and I've served my country for the last ten years while working in tech. I've been in the technology industry for 25 years and have been in management and am currently a principal engineer for a large SFBA company. My military service is what I did one weekend a month and has no connection to my tech job, other than providing me with people leadership experience that readily translated into my day job. I even served in a PSYOP unit for a few of those years. My fellow soldiers were cops, school teachers, software developers, construction workers, and PhD students. Just a bunch of young people that loved their country and wanted to help out while making a little extra money on the weekends. You will find current and former military at virtually every sizable tech company. We're not here as part of some covert government plan to subvert the industry. We are here because you can't support a family on the $300-500 a month that you get from reserve duty. We're just a slice of the nation and no different than you.
  - robert_foss 7y ago
    Clearly there can be a conflict of interest when working for international tech firms. If Russian PSYOPS reservists were heading up an American division of Twitter, surely people would be screaming bloody murder (and with good cause).
    - 7y ago
xkcd-sucks 7y ago
"Militarized adtech" does sound pretty terrifying though
vkou 7y ago
I must note that when there's a tie between an exec in a foreign country, and it's military/government, nobody has time for that kind of hair splitting.
mcsmash 7y ago
I would imagine that this is true for the vast majority of PsyOps people. However. Just because it's true for the vast majority of people doesn't mean it's true for everyone. By your logic the fact that the majority of developers being people trying to make a living banging away at keyboard implies that there are no kernel divers, or AI magicians, or black hole image processors. Yes, it's mostly bags of rice, but someone at the executive level of a major social media platform might, just _might_ be getting orders that are a little above and beyond taking pictures of rice.
mshockwave 7y ago
dude I think you underestimate how important social media plays in interfering internal affairs of a country
austincheney 7y ago
That isn't accurate. In a modern military the role of interfacing with an external public is divided into three distinct roles: * public relations * civil affairs * psychological operations Public relations' job is to interface with media and community leaders where the military is an established asset. This means in area where the military is not conducting active (non-training) military operations. Civil affairs' interface with media and civilian leaders in areas where the military is conducting active (non-training) operations. This may include areas where the military is operating in a peace keeping or humanitarian capacity. This communications responsibility may be more diplomatic or business oriented in nature and focuses on welfare and humane needs of a supported civilian population. Psychological operations operates against a military enemy. It is the job of all three roles to provide some amount of influence and general information. The public relations and civil affairs are far more restrictive in the information they provide, almost as if in a journalistic capacity. Psychological operations will provide any information as helpful to win military engagements and is primarily restricted by military tactical conditions. It is best not to intermix or confuse those 3 separate communications roles, because the overlap between them is extremely limited.
JamesSchriver 7y ago
I appreciate your dishing some reality to folks. I think the answer to your question lies in the fact that the faction that laments and is "outraged" at these types of things lies in the projection of their own guilt about psychological manipulation and propaganda efforts by the technology tyrants that control websites and public square of their services. Twitter, Facebook, Reddit, YouTube, HN too, they all are in the hands of unaccountable, censorious, authoritarian self-righteous people who abuse their control and power to silence things they personally or ideologically do not like or disapprove of, regardless of the factual basis in truth or reality. Try going on any digital public square website like FB, twitter, reddit, YT, etc. and point out things like that blacks commit wildly disproportionate amount of crime everywhere they are, even with direct links to the FBI crime statistics that prove it; and see how fast you are censored, mobbed, silenced, shadow banned, or any number of other abuses of power for literally just stating fact and reality, regardless of reasons, causes, or anything else. Society is clearly and objectively insane on a massive global scale right now by every and all objective psychological measures. That's the cause of that inconsistency and incongruence you are noting, the fact that they are projecting their own abuses on others and it causes the rage that comes from the cognitive dissonance they are experiencing from doing it.
cwkoss 7y ago
This comment is a great example of what kind of disinformation the PSYOPs might want to propagate. Probably isn't, but just saying...

5trokerac3 7y ago

PsyOps main job is convincing occupied peoples that the occupier is their friend. One of the ways they do that is by taking photos of bags of rice being handed out. They also actively work to spread (dis)information.

doktrin 7y ago
So, like a PR rep?
- umeshunni 7y ago
  Which also happens to be his role at Twitter, never mind the clickbait "Executive" in the headline.
- ratacat 7y ago
  The term public relations was actually an explicit rebranding of the term Propaganda after it started to develop a negative association in the public eye. Look up Edward Bernays, it's a fascinating bit of history that's not really talked about much. http://theconversation.com/the-manipulation-of-the-american-mind-edward-bernays-and-the-birth-of-public-relations-44393 http://theconversation.com/the-manipulation-of-the-american-...
  - throwaway829 7y ago
    If you're into documentaries, "The Century of the Self" covers this subject excellently: https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=century+of+self https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=century+of+self
    - news_hacker 7y ago
      One of my favorite documentaries! It didn't just give me new knowledge, but re-framed the way I view & process future knowledge.
- markdown 7y ago
  If they're on "our" side, we call them PR reps, yes.
a012 7y ago
In the other word: propaganda machine.
dogma1138 7y ago
You’ve seen one too many movies, mostly they are doing about the same job as brand influencers just their brand is HMAF in this case.
- Cpoll 7y ago
  What part of the parent post is movie-like? I may be too cynical, but I don't see a difference between "the same job as brand influencers" and "spread (dis)information"
  - dogma1138 7y ago
    Because most of their job isn’t spreading disinformation but rather providing good PR for recruitment at home or in the Middle East countering the disinformation campaigns that the likes of ISIS run unless you think that their recruitment operations are not disinformation. The British army information warfare unit also famously runs the BBC radio relay station in Cyprus providing access to the Middle East and parts of Asia.
    - vkou 7y ago
      What makes you think the good PR is not disinformation?
    - 5trokerac3 7y ago
      "Good PR" is also seen as the lack of bad PR. Like when we drop a bomb on a school and kill a bunch of kids. PsyOps are the ones who pay off the village.
- 5trokerac3 7y ago
  No, I was stationed as security for a PsyOps team in Gardez, Afghanistan for four months in 2003.
  - diminoten 7y ago
    Sounds like one particular viewpoint that, while somewhat relevant, doesn't actually shed much light into this vastly different (both geographically and temporally) situation. Don't close your mind just because you know of one instance of the thing being discussed; you anchor yourself to a specific point in time.

colordrops 7y ago

Whether it's fliers or LSD the intention is the same. And sometimes it does end up being worse than LSD, such as gun fire and cluster bombs.

dfsegoat 7y ago
"kinetic operations" (read: shooting) are not generally within the purview of Psychological Operations units... Do you have any cites to support your claim?
- colordrops 7y ago
  It should be obvious that my point is that it's one organization with a unified purpose regardless of what unit they are part of.
  - tptacek 7y ago
    It was not at all obvious, and further, you made a claim ("gun fire and cluster bombs") that implied you had some direct knowledge of the topic. Do you, or did your claim just sound right to your ears?
    - colordrops 7y ago
      Are you at all serious in implying that military propaganda and warfare aren't obviously related?

im3w1l 7y ago

Remember when Facebook experimented with mass emotional manipulation by boosting negative/positive content? That's one thing I'd expect a psyop guy might do. Another is boost posts from allies and demote posts from enemies.

Synaesthesia 7y ago

Public relations is simply the modern terminology for propaganda. He is a military propaganda officer.

ptero 7y ago

Not sure about the general population, but folks here are largely zeroing in on the conflict of interest issues. At least in the US, I would expect serving "PsyOps" people to be government employees, supported by taxes and subject to general oversight that taxpayers (at least in theory) should be able to exercise. I would have no problems if he went to Twitter after retiring, but I see such double-dipping as a current gov't employee as a big problem. My 2c.

vonmoltke 7y ago
So, do you think the entire concept of reservists should be abolished?
chrissnell 7y ago
What? I am a US Army Reserve officer and I've served my country for the last ten years while working in tech. I've been in the technology industry for 25 years and have been in management and am currently a principal engineer for a large SFBA company. My military service is what I did one weekend a month and has no connection to my tech job, other than providing me with people leadership experience that readily translated into my day job. I even served in a PSYOP unit for a few of those years. My fellow soldiers were cops, school teachers, software developers, construction workers, and PhD students. Just a bunch of young people that loved their country and wanted to help out while making a little extra money on the weekends. You will find current and former military at virtually every sizable tech company. We're not here as part of some covert government plan to subvert the industry. We are here because you can't support a family on the $300-500 a month that you get from reserve duty. We're just a slice of the nation and no different than you.
- robert_foss 7y ago
  Clearly there can be a conflict of interest when working for international tech firms. If Russian PSYOPS reservists were heading up an American division of Twitter, surely people would be screaming bloody murder (and with good cause).
  - 7y ago

xkcd-sucks 7y ago

"Militarized adtech" does sound pretty terrifying though

vkou 7y ago

I must note that when there's a tie between an exec in a foreign country, and it's military/government, nobody has time for that kind of hair splitting.

mcsmash 7y ago

I would imagine that this is true for the vast majority of PsyOps people. However. Just because it's true for the vast majority of people doesn't mean it's true for everyone. By your logic the fact that the majority of developers being people trying to make a living banging away at keyboard implies that there are no kernel divers, or AI magicians, or black hole image processors. Yes, it's mostly bags of rice, but someone at the executive level of a major social media platform might, just _might_ be getting orders that are a little above and beyond taking pictures of rice.

mshockwave 7y ago

dude I think you underestimate how important social media plays in interfering internal affairs of a country

austincheney 7y ago

That isn't accurate. In a modern military the role of interfacing with an external public is divided into three distinct roles: * public relations * civil affairs * psychological operations Public relations' job is to interface with media and community leaders where the military is an established asset. This means in area where the military is not conducting active (non-training) military operations. Civil affairs' interface with media and civilian leaders in areas where the military is conducting active (non-training) operations. This may include areas where the military is operating in a peace keeping or humanitarian capacity. This communications responsibility may be more diplomatic or business oriented in nature and focuses on welfare and humane needs of a supported civilian population. Psychological operations operates against a military enemy. It is the job of all three roles to provide some amount of influence and general information. The public relations and civil affairs are far more restrictive in the information they provide, almost as if in a journalistic capacity. Psychological operations will provide any information as helpful to win military engagements and is primarily restricted by military tactical conditions. It is best not to intermix or confuse those 3 separate communications roles, because the overlap between them is extremely limited.

JamesSchriver 7y ago

I appreciate your dishing some reality to folks. I think the answer to your question lies in the fact that the faction that laments and is "outraged" at these types of things lies in the projection of their own guilt about psychological manipulation and propaganda efforts by the technology tyrants that control websites and public square of their services. Twitter, Facebook, Reddit, YouTube, HN too, they all are in the hands of unaccountable, censorious, authoritarian self-righteous people who abuse their control and power to silence things they personally or ideologically do not like or disapprove of, regardless of the factual basis in truth or reality. Try going on any digital public square website like FB, twitter, reddit, YT, etc. and point out things like that blacks commit wildly disproportionate amount of crime everywhere they are, even with direct links to the FBI crime statistics that prove it; and see how fast you are censored, mobbed, silenced, shadow banned, or any number of other abuses of power for literally just stating fact and reality, regardless of reasons, causes, or anything else. Society is clearly and objectively insane on a massive global scale right now by every and all objective psychological measures. That's the cause of that inconsistency and incongruence you are noting, the fact that they are projecting their own abuses on others and it causes the rage that comes from the cognitive dissonance they are experiencing from doing it.

cwkoss 7y ago

This comment is a great example of what kind of disinformation the PSYOPs might want to propagate. Probably isn't, but just saying...