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> Moderators are part of the community that can vote and high-ranked people that vote have access to mod tools - they're basically moderators - just without the

> Moderators are part of the community that can vote and high-ranked people that vote have access to mod tools - they're basically moderators - just without the diamond. Yes, I know, which puts the entire outcry here (from likely low-score users) in a very comical light. "Ban mods"—what they really are asking for is "ban high-score users who do not like my low-quality questions".

Avamander 7y ago
> "ban high-score users who do not like my low-quality questions" Thanks for telling me you're part of the problem. You're not nearly as infallible in your judgement about what's a "bad question", it's plain and simple hubris most high-ranks have. The system should not allow such consolidation of power, there's a very good reason most democratic countries have separated the three powers.
- LeoNatan25 7y ago
  I'm not sure what "power" you think I have. I rarely vote to close questions. But I do flag, and do down-vote. Isn't that as democratic as it gets?
  - Avamander 7y ago
    > Isn't that as democratic as it gets? Why should you be able to flag for close, downvote and get to delete all at once? It's basically all the power there is, especially bad if you own a tag badge. We have enough people to separate those tasks, it'd definitely reduce one person's ability to do harm.
    - LeoNatan25 7y ago
      Everyone is able to flag for close, delete or downvote (above a very small point requirement—125, I thing). I cannot delete questions or answers on any whim. I can vote to to delete after a certain threshold of low-score passes. I don't see what is so problematic with this, as any user with a little persistence can reach this goal.
      - Avamander 7y ago
        How is "persistence" the correct characteristic based on which to select who gets to moderate? I'm also well aware of the thresholds, I don't think one user should just have only one integer value based on which one gets all the privileges.
        LeoNatan25 7y ago
        Because someone who is active in a community and has high confidence by the community (= high points), it is more likely that this person is capable of moderating this community better than someone who is not familiar with the subjects of the community.
        NeedMoreTea 7y ago
        That's the problem though, isn't it? > high confidence by the community = high points High confidence at answering questions. We don't get to vote on moderation, closed as dupe, deletion etc. Karma is only a weak indicator of being a good moderator. Sure they may know the subject well, but that's not reflective of a good and empathetic moderator. Frustration with this is one of the main reasons I just stopped logging in and participating. SE is now static web search results.
        LeoNatan25 7y ago
        I guess everyone sees the issue from their own point of view, of which there are many, and there isn’t one magic bullet to solve them all. I stopped participating because of the push to be more “welcoming”, even to those that put “it’s happening to me too, what I do???” as answers or those that can’t be bothered to search for anything, just want a solution HERE AND NOW. SO used to be a lot more strict than it is now, but people are complaining a lot more these days than before. That, too, says something about the community.
        Avamander 7y ago
        > I stopped participating because of the push to be more “welcoming” Because it's somehow hard to be welcoming? I guess it is for some people and now instead of a snarky comment they're just voting down, making everyone feel much better (/s). > as answers or those that can’t be bothered to search for anything, just want a solution HERE AND NOW. If only privileged users on SO closed such questions, but they don't. People are very rightfully complaining. > but people are complaining a lot more these days than before. That, too, says something about the community. It's always fun to blame users/someone else I guess.
- LeoNatan25 7y ago
  Also, I don't feel like apologizing for having a high score. I've earned it with hard work over many years. I understand it is more difficult now, because most of the good questions have been asked, and the vast majority of new questions are a repeat, but that does not mean I should feel guilty for having been able to, in my niche sector, to amass scores by helping people in their coding endeavors.
  - Avamander 7y ago
    Who said you have to feel guilty? It's just that you belong in a group of people that basically oppress other users, often unjustifiedly so.
    - LeoNatan25 7y ago
      Who am I oppressing exactly? By downvoting, am I oppressing the asking person? That’s ridiculous. Why does everyone insist on being so weak-minded?
      - fourthark 7y ago
        I think people don't want to feel like they're in some sort of social Darwin experiment where they have to compete to prove the worth of their questions. They just want help with their problems. As many have noted, there is a conflict between the goal of a wiki and the goal of getting answers to people. I speak as someone with a decent score answering questions, who had to fight tooth-and-nail for years to stop people from downvoting and close-voting questions they didn't understand in one of "my" tags.
        LeoNatan25 7y ago
        That’s understandable. Anyone downvoting a question they don’t understand is wrong. But objectively, there is a very large daily volume of very low quality questions. People can’t be arsed to, or are unable to, perform even the most rudimentary search, and just dump their questions, often in terrible English (In my niche, I’ve seen a clear correlation between bad English asking and duplicates or lazy “solve my homework” questions). I don’t think those are helping the community to grow in quality. I don’t think downvoting those is oppression, it’s a demand to do better. I’ve mostly left Stack Overflow because of these people. (No, I don’t claim oppression!)

Avamander 7y ago

> "ban high-score users who do not like my low-quality questions" Thanks for telling me you're part of the problem. You're not nearly as infallible in your judgement about what's a "bad question", it's plain and simple hubris most high-ranks have. The system should not allow such consolidation of power, there's a very good reason most democratic countries have separated the three powers.

LeoNatan25 7y ago
I'm not sure what "power" you think I have. I rarely vote to close questions. But I do flag, and do down-vote. Isn't that as democratic as it gets?
- Avamander 7y ago
  > Isn't that as democratic as it gets? Why should you be able to flag for close, downvote and get to delete all at once? It's basically all the power there is, especially bad if you own a tag badge. We have enough people to separate those tasks, it'd definitely reduce one person's ability to do harm.
  - LeoNatan25 7y ago
    Everyone is able to flag for close, delete or downvote (above a very small point requirement—125, I thing). I cannot delete questions or answers on any whim. I can vote to to delete after a certain threshold of low-score passes. I don't see what is so problematic with this, as any user with a little persistence can reach this goal.
    - Avamander 7y ago
      How is "persistence" the correct characteristic based on which to select who gets to moderate? I'm also well aware of the thresholds, I don't think one user should just have only one integer value based on which one gets all the privileges.
      - LeoNatan25 7y ago
        Because someone who is active in a community and has high confidence by the community (= high points), it is more likely that this person is capable of moderating this community better than someone who is not familiar with the subjects of the community.
        NeedMoreTea 7y ago
        That's the problem though, isn't it? > high confidence by the community = high points High confidence at answering questions. We don't get to vote on moderation, closed as dupe, deletion etc. Karma is only a weak indicator of being a good moderator. Sure they may know the subject well, but that's not reflective of a good and empathetic moderator. Frustration with this is one of the main reasons I just stopped logging in and participating. SE is now static web search results.
        LeoNatan25 7y ago
        I guess everyone sees the issue from their own point of view, of which there are many, and there isn’t one magic bullet to solve them all. I stopped participating because of the push to be more “welcoming”, even to those that put “it’s happening to me too, what I do???” as answers or those that can’t be bothered to search for anything, just want a solution HERE AND NOW. SO used to be a lot more strict than it is now, but people are complaining a lot more these days than before. That, too, says something about the community.
        Avamander 7y ago
        > I stopped participating because of the push to be more “welcoming” Because it's somehow hard to be welcoming? I guess it is for some people and now instead of a snarky comment they're just voting down, making everyone feel much better (/s). > as answers or those that can’t be bothered to search for anything, just want a solution HERE AND NOW. If only privileged users on SO closed such questions, but they don't. People are very rightfully complaining. > but people are complaining a lot more these days than before. That, too, says something about the community. It's always fun to blame users/someone else I guess.
LeoNatan25 7y ago
Also, I don't feel like apologizing for having a high score. I've earned it with hard work over many years. I understand it is more difficult now, because most of the good questions have been asked, and the vast majority of new questions are a repeat, but that does not mean I should feel guilty for having been able to, in my niche sector, to amass scores by helping people in their coding endeavors.
- Avamander 7y ago
  Who said you have to feel guilty? It's just that you belong in a group of people that basically oppress other users, often unjustifiedly so.
  - LeoNatan25 7y ago
    Who am I oppressing exactly? By downvoting, am I oppressing the asking person? That’s ridiculous. Why does everyone insist on being so weak-minded?
    - fourthark 7y ago
      I think people don't want to feel like they're in some sort of social Darwin experiment where they have to compete to prove the worth of their questions. They just want help with their problems. As many have noted, there is a conflict between the goal of a wiki and the goal of getting answers to people. I speak as someone with a decent score answering questions, who had to fight tooth-and-nail for years to stop people from downvoting and close-voting questions they didn't understand in one of "my" tags.
      - LeoNatan25 7y ago
        That’s understandable. Anyone downvoting a question they don’t understand is wrong. But objectively, there is a very large daily volume of very low quality questions. People can’t be arsed to, or are unable to, perform even the most rudimentary search, and just dump their questions, often in terrible English (In my niche, I’ve seen a clear correlation between bad English asking and duplicates or lazy “solve my homework” questions). I don’t think those are helping the community to grow in quality. I don’t think downvoting those is oppression, it’s a demand to do better. I’ve mostly left Stack Overflow because of these people. (No, I don’t claim oppression!)