6 ms·

I've got nothing of substance to comment on the technical aspects of the project but I find it amusing that Germans create a lot of pseudo-English words (Dengli

I've got nothing of substance to comment on the technical aspects of the project but I find it amusing that Germans create a lot of pseudo-English words (Denglisch) such as "beamer" (projector) and "handy" (mobile phone). I wonder how confusing this might be to anglophone people.

lvturner 7y ago
Very, in the UK a "beamer" is a slang term for a BMW!
- blantonl 7y ago
  I think you meant bimmer
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - comtn 7y ago
    Same for in the US (atleast in Colorado). beamer.
  - CraigRood 7y ago
    No, "beamer" certainly is slang for BMW.
  - Unklejoe 7y ago
    "Bimmer" usually refers to cars while "Beamer" refers to bikes. At least that's the general consensus on the forums.
    - yardie 7y ago
      I think the distinction has lost any meaning outside of the most ardent fans. In the west there are few BMW motorcycles and so Beamer generally applies to both.
    - Wistar 7y ago
      "Beemer" for bikes and "bimmer" for cars is certainly what I have observed among BMW enthusiasts. At least on the US west coast.
    - lvturner 7y ago
      'Bimmer' I was aware of too, I didn't realise there was a distinction between the cars and bikes, I always assumed it was just regional differences!
  - stedaniels 7y ago
    I think you meant to take a more holistic view, and wonder, are we both right? ;-) https://www.bmw.com/en/automotive-life/bimmer-beamer-nickname-origin.html https://www.bmw.com/en/automotive-life/bimmer-beamer-nicknam... It's certainly regional and probably differs down to friendship groups.
    - blantonl 7y ago
      very fair - my apologies :)
close04 7y ago
> a lot of pseudo-English words (Denglisch) such as "beamer" (protector) and "handy" (mobile phone) These are real German words. The reason they sound like English is because they were imported and adapted like any other neologism. Denglish (or Frenglish, Ponglish, Spanglish, etc.) refers either to words that don't exist in any of the 2 languages but borrow heavily from real words (a lot of corporate lingo in most languages has these fake words adapted from English), or to using literal translations of expressions or “false friends” between that language and English even if the meaning inadvertently changes. And "beamer" is actually used by a lot of non-native English speakers to refer to a video projector when speaking English. For example words like "substance", "amusing", "mobile", or "confusing" are of French origin but since they are in the dictionary they're not considered Frenglish (Engch?).
- megous 7y ago
  Now this started making sense :) I never realized it was named after a word for a projector. Perhaps because I didn't read the wikipedia article until now. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beamer_(LaTeX) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beamer_(LaTeX)
  - dividuum 7y ago
    That's correct. The naming was due to it being initial built to show information (=info) on a projector (=beamer) at a German hacker conference to inform visitors about talks, tweets and more. You can actually see the very first public usage in this old image from 2012: Note the projection in the top middle: https://entropia.de/images/c/cf/GPN12-atarifrosch-20120609-033.jpg https://entropia.de/images/c/cf/GPN12-atarifrosch-20120609-0...
    - megous 7y ago
      I think that Beamer is way older than 2012. I first used it around 2005 when I was learning LaTeX for the first time and wanted to use it for everything, incl. presentations.
  - stuaxo 7y ago
lorenzhs 7y ago
I think the worst of these is calling shoulder bags "bodybag" (because it's worn around the body, or something like that). Fortunately most retailers noticed that the term means something quite different in English and stopped using it.
dividuum 7y ago
In hindsight I should probably named everything differently, but I didn't expect the software to turn into a company at some point when I initially started it over 8 years ago for a hacker conference (see https://github.com/dividuum/info-beamer https://github.com/dividuum/info-beamer). The main challenge was to understand how to use the HEVC decoder. There's no documentation at the moment, so the only source of information is this patched FFmpeg release: https://github.com/popcornmix/FFmpeg/commits/2711 https://github.com/popcornmix/FFmpeg/commits/2711 Basically the decoder interacts with /dev/argon-hevcmem to control the HEVC hardware decoder. You let it decode into video core controlled memory and can then use the MMAL toolkit (http://www.jvcref.com/files/PI/documentation/html/ http://www.jvcref.com/files/PI/documentation/html/) to feed buffers through a scheduler and finally into the dispmanx layers handled by the hardware video scaler. That way the frames end up more or less directly on the screen. Except for the decoding part, the same pipeline of scheduler and presentation can also be used with the older H264 based encoder that's directly addressable using MMAL.
- wronglebowski 7y ago
  This seems like a large oversight given people usually decide to use the Pi for better documentation and support. The Pi 4 is being marketed as a "Real" desktop replacement option and I find it very surprising HEVC decoding documentation is this poor. So basically FFmpeg communicates with the HEVC hardware decoder via a bunch of rough code? Is this stable?
  - dividuum 7y ago
    To be fair, these kind of low level stuff is usually handled by only a handful people, so investing a lot of time in proper documentation might be a lot of work for something useful by few users. The same is also true for DRM and in general the modern graphical APIs on stock Linux. It was surprisingly difficult to understand how all that works together. I had to rely mostly on example code. Even the man pages are incomplete. I guess it's the same situation: The kernel devs build an API, a few people (maybe even the same people) from Xorg or wayland use it and that's it. On the other hand, the initial Pi firmware for earlier models came with a bunch of bundled examples in the hello_pi directory that were incredibly useful in understanding how everything worked. (see https://github.com/raspberrypi/firmware/tree/master/opt/vc/src/hello_pi https://github.com/raspberrypi/firmware/tree/master/opt/vc/s...). Right now the forum and maybe the firmware issue tracker is the only source of information. In general, the direction of using more standardized APIs like DRM, Mesa 3D for GL and so on seems like a good idea regardless. I guess we'll just have to give all that more time. The HEVC decoder is using a patched FFmpeg with direct communication with the hardware API. In the future there will be an V4L2 API and corresponding method in FFmpeg (see https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=247897 https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=247897). But that's not completed yet and there's no release date announced. I would guess once that's out, the whole decoding process will be a bit cleaner than it is today. But so far I works pretty well. I ran into a ton of firmware lockups during development, but most of those are fixed now. One thing I didn't manage to do yet is to decode two videos at the same time. That's something the H264 decoder could do. See also https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=70&t=252061 https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=70&t=2520...
devonkim 7y ago
It’s done around the world, I don’t understand? Koreans use the German word for work arbeit for a part time job, for example while using handphone and sometimes say a Konglish term that uses hand in Korean and English phone. I believe Hong Kong folks do similar things as well. Heck, the Japanese term kimono is being used now in US fashion for basically a swim suit cover up (just like they did for futon IMO).
wazoox 7y ago
That's the same everywhere: in French, "parking" is a car park. "Shampooing" is shampoo, and gave the verb "shampooiner" (to shampoo). And famously, "talkie-walkie" is the French word for "walkie-talkie" :)

lvturner 7y ago

Very, in the UK a "beamer" is a slang term for a BMW!

blantonl 7y ago
I think you meant bimmer
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- comtn 7y ago
  Same for in the US (atleast in Colorado). beamer.
- CraigRood 7y ago
  No, "beamer" certainly is slang for BMW.
- Unklejoe 7y ago
  "Bimmer" usually refers to cars while "Beamer" refers to bikes. At least that's the general consensus on the forums.
  - yardie 7y ago
    I think the distinction has lost any meaning outside of the most ardent fans. In the west there are few BMW motorcycles and so Beamer generally applies to both.
  - Wistar 7y ago
    "Beemer" for bikes and "bimmer" for cars is certainly what I have observed among BMW enthusiasts. At least on the US west coast.
  - lvturner 7y ago
    'Bimmer' I was aware of too, I didn't realise there was a distinction between the cars and bikes, I always assumed it was just regional differences!
- stedaniels 7y ago
  I think you meant to take a more holistic view, and wonder, are we both right? ;-) https://www.bmw.com/en/automotive-life/bimmer-beamer-nickname-origin.html https://www.bmw.com/en/automotive-life/bimmer-beamer-nicknam... It's certainly regional and probably differs down to friendship groups.
  - blantonl 7y ago
    very fair - my apologies :)

close04 7y ago

> a lot of pseudo-English words (Denglisch) such as "beamer" (protector) and "handy" (mobile phone) These are real German words. The reason they sound like English is because they were imported and adapted like any other neologism. Denglish (or Frenglish, Ponglish, Spanglish, etc.) refers either to words that don't exist in any of the 2 languages but borrow heavily from real words (a lot of corporate lingo in most languages has these fake words adapted from English), or to using literal translations of expressions or “false friends” between that language and English even if the meaning inadvertently changes. And "beamer" is actually used by a lot of non-native English speakers to refer to a video projector when speaking English. For example words like "substance", "amusing", "mobile", or "confusing" are of French origin but since they are in the dictionary they're not considered Frenglish (Engch?).

megous 7y ago
Now this started making sense :) I never realized it was named after a word for a projector. Perhaps because I didn't read the wikipedia article until now. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beamer_(LaTeX) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beamer_(LaTeX)
- dividuum 7y ago
  That's correct. The naming was due to it being initial built to show information (=info) on a projector (=beamer) at a German hacker conference to inform visitors about talks, tweets and more. You can actually see the very first public usage in this old image from 2012: Note the projection in the top middle: https://entropia.de/images/c/cf/GPN12-atarifrosch-20120609-033.jpg https://entropia.de/images/c/cf/GPN12-atarifrosch-20120609-0...
  - megous 7y ago
    I think that Beamer is way older than 2012. I first used it around 2005 when I was learning LaTeX for the first time and wanted to use it for everything, incl. presentations.
- stuaxo 7y ago

lorenzhs 7y ago

I think the worst of these is calling shoulder bags "bodybag" (because it's worn around the body, or something like that). Fortunately most retailers noticed that the term means something quite different in English and stopped using it.

dividuum 7y ago

In hindsight I should probably named everything differently, but I didn't expect the software to turn into a company at some point when I initially started it over 8 years ago for a hacker conference (see https://github.com/dividuum/info-beamer https://github.com/dividuum/info-beamer). The main challenge was to understand how to use the HEVC decoder. There's no documentation at the moment, so the only source of information is this patched FFmpeg release: https://github.com/popcornmix/FFmpeg/commits/2711 https://github.com/popcornmix/FFmpeg/commits/2711 Basically the decoder interacts with /dev/argon-hevcmem to control the HEVC hardware decoder. You let it decode into video core controlled memory and can then use the MMAL toolkit (http://www.jvcref.com/files/PI/documentation/html/ http://www.jvcref.com/files/PI/documentation/html/) to feed buffers through a scheduler and finally into the dispmanx layers handled by the hardware video scaler. That way the frames end up more or less directly on the screen. Except for the decoding part, the same pipeline of scheduler and presentation can also be used with the older H264 based encoder that's directly addressable using MMAL.

wronglebowski 7y ago
This seems like a large oversight given people usually decide to use the Pi for better documentation and support. The Pi 4 is being marketed as a "Real" desktop replacement option and I find it very surprising HEVC decoding documentation is this poor. So basically FFmpeg communicates with the HEVC hardware decoder via a bunch of rough code? Is this stable?
- dividuum 7y ago
  To be fair, these kind of low level stuff is usually handled by only a handful people, so investing a lot of time in proper documentation might be a lot of work for something useful by few users. The same is also true for DRM and in general the modern graphical APIs on stock Linux. It was surprisingly difficult to understand how all that works together. I had to rely mostly on example code. Even the man pages are incomplete. I guess it's the same situation: The kernel devs build an API, a few people (maybe even the same people) from Xorg or wayland use it and that's it. On the other hand, the initial Pi firmware for earlier models came with a bunch of bundled examples in the hello_pi directory that were incredibly useful in understanding how everything worked. (see https://github.com/raspberrypi/firmware/tree/master/opt/vc/src/hello_pi https://github.com/raspberrypi/firmware/tree/master/opt/vc/s...). Right now the forum and maybe the firmware issue tracker is the only source of information. In general, the direction of using more standardized APIs like DRM, Mesa 3D for GL and so on seems like a good idea regardless. I guess we'll just have to give all that more time. The HEVC decoder is using a patched FFmpeg with direct communication with the hardware API. In the future there will be an V4L2 API and corresponding method in FFmpeg (see https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=247897 https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=247897). But that's not completed yet and there's no release date announced. I would guess once that's out, the whole decoding process will be a bit cleaner than it is today. But so far I works pretty well. I ran into a ton of firmware lockups during development, but most of those are fixed now. One thing I didn't manage to do yet is to decode two videos at the same time. That's something the H264 decoder could do. See also https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=70&t=252061 https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=70&t=2520...

devonkim 7y ago

It’s done around the world, I don’t understand? Koreans use the German word for work arbeit for a part time job, for example while using handphone and sometimes say a Konglish term that uses hand in Korean and English phone. I believe Hong Kong folks do similar things as well. Heck, the Japanese term kimono is being used now in US fashion for basically a swim suit cover up (just like they did for futon IMO).

wazoox 7y ago

That's the same everywhere: in French, "parking" is a car park. "Shampooing" is shampoo, and gave the verb "shampooiner" (to shampoo). And famously, "talkie-walkie" is the French word for "walkie-talkie" :)