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> You don't get X good thing without Y bad behaviour. Consider the following: Humans have limited capacity, thus time, money and energy spent limiting Y inhibi

> You don't get X good thing without Y bad behaviour. Consider the following: Humans have limited capacity, thus time, money and energy spent limiting Y inhibits resources available to creating X.

throw0101a 7y ago
While life is short, it is long enough that people can learn not to be assholes / jerks IMHO: * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_No_Asshole_Rule https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_No_Asshole_Rule * https://hbr.org/2007/03/why-i-wrote-the-no-asshole-rule https://hbr.org/2007/03/why-i-wrote-the-no-asshole-rule * https://www.td.org/insights/dont-tolerate-brilliant-jerks https://www.td.org/insights/dont-tolerate-brilliant-jerks * https://www.inc.com/jim-schleckser/why-netflix-doesn-t-tolerate-brilliant-jerks.html https://www.inc.com/jim-schleckser/why-netflix-doesn-t-toler...
- Chris2048 7y ago
  So apsies are just jerks? right. I can't see how packaging insults as a solution improves anything.
- klingonopera 7y ago
  1) There's a reason drill sergeants aren't exactly known to be friendly... 2) Not all people have an easy time learning not to be an asshole (and some literally can't). Thus, the resource-cost varies. 3) If one is just blunt, people can often misinterpret that as being an asshole. But factually, the blunt person is just blunt, and the "victim" is just disgruntled, which, at least in my opinion, makes the "victim" the actual asshole if he decides to judge the blunt person because of that. There are certainly many assholes who deserve to be criticized, but we should allow the benefit of doubt to all parties first.
  - quickthrower2 7y ago
    It’s a fine line between blunt and asshole. To pull off being blunt you need some additional empathy and social grace. The other person has to feel that your blunt but they respect it. Otherwise you’ll be seen as an asshole. Assholery really is in the eyes and ears of the beholder.
- klingonopera 7y ago
  Taking a closer look at "The No Asshole Rule", I'd say it's an opinion piece, and it runs the risk of enforcing something like Newspeak and a conformist atmosphere. They argue with a single example of how getting rid of a salesman at a company, who was an asshole, but had great results, that the following year, the company's revenue went up (correlation does not imply causation). Then, OTOH, they argue that every company needs a "token asshole" citing Steve Jobs as an example (in direct contradiction to the previous cited example). On the whole, there doesn't seem to be enough scientific evidence to support the anti-asshole sentiment, just a bunch of opinions, hamstrung with authoritative arguments. I'd refer again to the drill sergeant as a hyperbole as to why some people are assholes, and how it serves the greater good in defiance to the brunt of people having to accept such assholery.
- username90 7y ago
  In many scenarios the most important skill you can have is the ability to ignore common sense. The drawback of that ability is that people without common sense are very often seen as assholes since most of our social fabric is based on mutual common sense. Or in other words, a person who is brilliant thanks to his lack of common sense would not have been brilliant if he had common sense. And convincing a person without common sense that learning common sense would be good for him is very hard, most likely he will just ignore it like he did all other common sense things he have been told to do in his life. Therefore it is inevitable that asshole leaders who lack common sense will continue to appear and thrive, because those with common sense can't do the job.
matthewmacleod 7y ago
Consider the following: the existence and promotion of Y bad behaviour reduces the ability and willingness of humans to contribute to creating X, and the return of investment of time, money and energy spent in limiting Y results in more overall time, money and energy available to create X. Better yet, consider the following: things are more complicated that ridiculous oversimplification.
- klingonopera 7y ago
  Convenient, to be able to decide, when and where to apply Occam's Razor.

> You don't get X good thing without Y bad behaviour. Consider the following: Humans have limited capacity, thus time, money and energy spent limiting Y inhibits resources available to creating X.

throw0101a 7y ago

While life is short, it is long enough that people can learn not to be assholes / jerks IMHO: * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_No_Asshole_Rule https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_No_Asshole_Rule * https://hbr.org/2007/03/why-i-wrote-the-no-asshole-rule https://hbr.org/2007/03/why-i-wrote-the-no-asshole-rule * https://www.td.org/insights/dont-tolerate-brilliant-jerks https://www.td.org/insights/dont-tolerate-brilliant-jerks * https://www.inc.com/jim-schleckser/why-netflix-doesn-t-tolerate-brilliant-jerks.html https://www.inc.com/jim-schleckser/why-netflix-doesn-t-toler...

Chris2048 7y ago
So apsies are just jerks? right. I can't see how packaging insults as a solution improves anything.
klingonopera 7y ago
1) There's a reason drill sergeants aren't exactly known to be friendly... 2) Not all people have an easy time learning not to be an asshole (and some literally can't). Thus, the resource-cost varies. 3) If one is just blunt, people can often misinterpret that as being an asshole. But factually, the blunt person is just blunt, and the "victim" is just disgruntled, which, at least in my opinion, makes the "victim" the actual asshole if he decides to judge the blunt person because of that. There are certainly many assholes who deserve to be criticized, but we should allow the benefit of doubt to all parties first.
- quickthrower2 7y ago
  It’s a fine line between blunt and asshole. To pull off being blunt you need some additional empathy and social grace. The other person has to feel that your blunt but they respect it. Otherwise you’ll be seen as an asshole. Assholery really is in the eyes and ears of the beholder.
klingonopera 7y ago
Taking a closer look at "The No Asshole Rule", I'd say it's an opinion piece, and it runs the risk of enforcing something like Newspeak and a conformist atmosphere. They argue with a single example of how getting rid of a salesman at a company, who was an asshole, but had great results, that the following year, the company's revenue went up (correlation does not imply causation). Then, OTOH, they argue that every company needs a "token asshole" citing Steve Jobs as an example (in direct contradiction to the previous cited example). On the whole, there doesn't seem to be enough scientific evidence to support the anti-asshole sentiment, just a bunch of opinions, hamstrung with authoritative arguments. I'd refer again to the drill sergeant as a hyperbole as to why some people are assholes, and how it serves the greater good in defiance to the brunt of people having to accept such assholery.
username90 7y ago
In many scenarios the most important skill you can have is the ability to ignore common sense. The drawback of that ability is that people without common sense are very often seen as assholes since most of our social fabric is based on mutual common sense. Or in other words, a person who is brilliant thanks to his lack of common sense would not have been brilliant if he had common sense. And convincing a person without common sense that learning common sense would be good for him is very hard, most likely he will just ignore it like he did all other common sense things he have been told to do in his life. Therefore it is inevitable that asshole leaders who lack common sense will continue to appear and thrive, because those with common sense can't do the job.

matthewmacleod 7y ago

Consider the following: the existence and promotion of Y bad behaviour reduces the ability and willingness of humans to contribute to creating X, and the return of investment of time, money and energy spent in limiting Y results in more overall time, money and energy available to create X. Better yet, consider the following: things are more complicated that ridiculous oversimplification.

klingonopera 7y ago
Convenient, to be able to decide, when and where to apply Occam's Razor.