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before someone goes into a defensive rage... rms being a creep and particularly women at MIT going to great lengths to avoid him is well documented these remar

before someone goes into a defensive rage... rms being a creep and particularly women at MIT going to great lengths to avoid him is well documented these remarks, while slightly distorted by the media, are still part of a pattern of dismissing sexual assault (including the way RMS insists on not using the word assault despite it being well understood that assault does not have to be physical violence) rms is the sort of person who overshoots principled to a point everyone is tired of talking to them and where in-person criticism dies before it is even expressed because why bother with someone who will never seek to be better anyway and that afforded him a lot of leeway, even if i think the means of removing him now have been not entirely clean, it still was overdue

goatinaboat 7y ago
women at MIT going to great lengths to avoid him is well documented Genuine question: where is this documented? I have been using GNU stuff for 25 years and until now have never heard about this. Do you have links to reputable sources?
- foldr 7y ago
  https://www.reddit.com/r/justneckbeardthings/comments/2vkeze/he_calls_it_his_pleasure_card/ https://www.reddit.com/r/justneckbeardthings/comments/2vkeze...
  - doubleunplussed 7y ago
    So are weird polyamorous people who are into "cuddle puddles" committing sexual assault or something similar by advertising that fact? It seems to me that Stallman advertising that he likes cuddles is automatically considered creepy, beyond the pale, whereas if a properly woke community of appropriately diverse individuals did the same, it would be just considered part of that culture and accepted. What's more, Stallman used to be part of what that community used to be. He is a hippie. I bet people not up to speed on him reading about this incident assume he's an alt-righter who voted for Trump, but he supports Bernie Sanders, says that Australians should vote for the Greens, and advocates for weird gender-neutral pronouns. And he likes cuddles and dared to advertise that fact! I acknowledge that putting that on a business card is out of line in today's culture, but god I wish it wasn't. If you are creeped out by an old man wanting cuddles, but you wouldn't if it were someone else, then you are a bigot. And if you're creeped out any people at all advertising that they like cuddles, then that is stifling and the future is going to be bland and full of lonely people.
    - foldr 7y ago
      >So are weird polyamorous people who are into "cuddle puddles" committing sexual assault or something similar by advertising that fact? Nobody is accusing RMS of committing sexual assault.
      - doubleunplussed 7y ago
        Fine. Are the hypothetical weird poly people ineligible to work for MIT because they openly advertise their enthusiasm for cuddle puddles? Edit: also, there are plenty of people accusing Stallman of sexual assault. But I'm happy to argue under the pretence that that isn't true.
        foldr 7y ago
        Who is accusing RMS of sexual assault? >Are the hypothetical weird poly people ineligible to work for MIT because they openly advertise their enthusiasm for cuddle puddles? If they do it in a professional context, I would say yes.
eej2ya1K 7y ago
You, too - stop lying. People have been asking for documentation in every thread about this and it never shows up. Stop fucking lying.
- sascha_sl 7y ago
  https://twitter.com/corbett/status/994012399656042496 https://twitter.com/corbett/status/994012399656042496 https://twitter.com/starsandrobots/status/994267277460619265 https://twitter.com/starsandrobots/status/994267277460619265 https://twitter.com/sarahmei/status/994010501460865025 https://twitter.com/sarahmei/status/994010501460865025 https://twitter.com/wiredferret/status/1173042834179534849 https://twitter.com/wiredferret/status/1173042834179534849 https://medium.com/@selamjie/remove-richard-stallman-appendix-a-a7e41e784f88 https://medium.com/@selamjie/remove-richard-stallman-appendi...
  - rando832 7y ago
    So, basically, exactly what the article says, a big nothing. The plants thing is stupid, rms doesn't hate plants. Sarah Mei appears to have no special reason to hate rms, shes a well known person who is extremely negative about anyone in software who's said anything offensive, including Linus, etc.
    - sascha_sl 7y ago
      >The plants thing is stupid, rms doesn't hate plants. Source? I have no reason to disbelieve the claim, this discussion on Wikipedia seems to correlate it too. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Richard_Stallman/Archive_8#Stallman's_plant-phobia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Richard_Stallman/Archive_... Besides dismissing one person at face value... is that all you have to say about these?
      - Corazoor 7y ago
        Well... An anonymous source, from the internet, which itself had heard of this only through another party. Dismissing unreliable sources like that is a safe default, no? But more to the matter at hand, Stallman himself has a story about him smelling on plants, albeit dead: https://stallman.org/articles/texas.html https://stallman.org/articles/texas.html So, the far more reliable source seems to suggest that, indeed, he doesn't fear plants.
ipsa 7y ago
If we are going to destroy the lives of men for being creepy and having socially awkward game, do we also get a pass for undesired female behavior, such as cuntiness and sleeping around? RMS could have the most pleasing and charming pick-up artistry, and most women would still avoid him like the plague. I think people like RMS should just stop trying to connect to the opposite sex altogether, because clearly, making women reject your advances is a dangerous game for some. The genius dude just did not want to change his mind. What a terrible and unprofessional thing to do. He should have listened and could be banging a cancel culture beast right now. Edit: The proof you give: "My first interaction with RMS was at a hacker con at 19. He asked my name, I gave it, whether I went to MIT (I had an MIT shirt on), and after confirmation I did, asked me on a date. I said no. That was our entire conversation." What a crime! What a crime! I bet that pushed her out of the industry altogether, into an industry where men are all married.
EdwardDiego 7y ago
> before someone goes into a defensive rage... rms being a creep and particularly women at MIT going to great lengths to avoid him is well documented I can't believe this hasn't been asked yet - if the allegations are founded, why didn't MIT do anything as his employer? They have a statutory obligation to provide a safe workplace.
- sascha_sl 7y ago
  I hate to be the one to draw the feminism card on HN because I know I'll attract a swarm of people that'll 'disagree' with me by shouting things at me, but that is called rape culture, and despite the confusing name, it is not solely about rape. If that sounds hard to believe I can empathise, it took a personal anecdote for me to get and notice the spread of it too. If you're wondering how one would be disincentivized, have a lot at how people react: https://medium.com/p/a7e41e784f88/responses/show https://medium.com/p/a7e41e784f88/responses/show
  - EdwardDiego 7y ago
    I scrolled for a bit, but that didn't answer my question about MIT's culpability and lack of action on allegations made to them. Oh wait, you're saying that no allegations were made to them? Did I read that right?
    - sascha_sl 7y ago
      I don't know, there doesn't seem to be any documented instances of that I can find. Doesn't mean there wasn't any, but as I said, disincentives to reporting are high.
      - EdwardDiego 7y ago
        Which makes me worry about MIT the organisation then - a healthy organisation would have processes in place to minimise those disincentives.

goatinaboat 7y ago

women at MIT going to great lengths to avoid him is well documented Genuine question: where is this documented? I have been using GNU stuff for 25 years and until now have never heard about this. Do you have links to reputable sources?

foldr 7y ago
https://www.reddit.com/r/justneckbeardthings/comments/2vkeze/he_calls_it_his_pleasure_card/ https://www.reddit.com/r/justneckbeardthings/comments/2vkeze...
- doubleunplussed 7y ago
  So are weird polyamorous people who are into "cuddle puddles" committing sexual assault or something similar by advertising that fact? It seems to me that Stallman advertising that he likes cuddles is automatically considered creepy, beyond the pale, whereas if a properly woke community of appropriately diverse individuals did the same, it would be just considered part of that culture and accepted. What's more, Stallman used to be part of what that community used to be. He is a hippie. I bet people not up to speed on him reading about this incident assume he's an alt-righter who voted for Trump, but he supports Bernie Sanders, says that Australians should vote for the Greens, and advocates for weird gender-neutral pronouns. And he likes cuddles and dared to advertise that fact! I acknowledge that putting that on a business card is out of line in today's culture, but god I wish it wasn't. If you are creeped out by an old man wanting cuddles, but you wouldn't if it were someone else, then you are a bigot. And if you're creeped out any people at all advertising that they like cuddles, then that is stifling and the future is going to be bland and full of lonely people.
  - foldr 7y ago
    >So are weird polyamorous people who are into "cuddle puddles" committing sexual assault or something similar by advertising that fact? Nobody is accusing RMS of committing sexual assault.
    - doubleunplussed 7y ago
      Fine. Are the hypothetical weird poly people ineligible to work for MIT because they openly advertise their enthusiasm for cuddle puddles? Edit: also, there are plenty of people accusing Stallman of sexual assault. But I'm happy to argue under the pretence that that isn't true.
      - foldr 7y ago
        Who is accusing RMS of sexual assault? >Are the hypothetical weird poly people ineligible to work for MIT because they openly advertise their enthusiasm for cuddle puddles? If they do it in a professional context, I would say yes.

eej2ya1K 7y ago

You, too - stop lying. People have been asking for documentation in every thread about this and it never shows up. Stop fucking lying.

sascha_sl 7y ago
https://twitter.com/corbett/status/994012399656042496 https://twitter.com/corbett/status/994012399656042496 https://twitter.com/starsandrobots/status/994267277460619265 https://twitter.com/starsandrobots/status/994267277460619265 https://twitter.com/sarahmei/status/994010501460865025 https://twitter.com/sarahmei/status/994010501460865025 https://twitter.com/wiredferret/status/1173042834179534849 https://twitter.com/wiredferret/status/1173042834179534849 https://medium.com/@selamjie/remove-richard-stallman-appendix-a-a7e41e784f88 https://medium.com/@selamjie/remove-richard-stallman-appendi...
- rando832 7y ago
  So, basically, exactly what the article says, a big nothing. The plants thing is stupid, rms doesn't hate plants. Sarah Mei appears to have no special reason to hate rms, shes a well known person who is extremely negative about anyone in software who's said anything offensive, including Linus, etc.
  - sascha_sl 7y ago
    >The plants thing is stupid, rms doesn't hate plants. Source? I have no reason to disbelieve the claim, this discussion on Wikipedia seems to correlate it too. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Richard_Stallman/Archive_8#Stallman's_plant-phobia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Richard_Stallman/Archive_... Besides dismissing one person at face value... is that all you have to say about these?
    - Corazoor 7y ago
      Well... An anonymous source, from the internet, which itself had heard of this only through another party. Dismissing unreliable sources like that is a safe default, no? But more to the matter at hand, Stallman himself has a story about him smelling on plants, albeit dead: https://stallman.org/articles/texas.html https://stallman.org/articles/texas.html So, the far more reliable source seems to suggest that, indeed, he doesn't fear plants.

ipsa 7y ago

If we are going to destroy the lives of men for being creepy and having socially awkward game, do we also get a pass for undesired female behavior, such as cuntiness and sleeping around? RMS could have the most pleasing and charming pick-up artistry, and most women would still avoid him like the plague. I think people like RMS should just stop trying to connect to the opposite sex altogether, because clearly, making women reject your advances is a dangerous game for some. The genius dude just did not want to change his mind. What a terrible and unprofessional thing to do. He should have listened and could be banging a cancel culture beast right now. Edit: The proof you give: "My first interaction with RMS was at a hacker con at 19. He asked my name, I gave it, whether I went to MIT (I had an MIT shirt on), and after confirmation I did, asked me on a date. I said no. That was our entire conversation." What a crime! What a crime! I bet that pushed her out of the industry altogether, into an industry where men are all married.

EdwardDiego 7y ago

> before someone goes into a defensive rage... rms being a creep and particularly women at MIT going to great lengths to avoid him is well documented I can't believe this hasn't been asked yet - if the allegations are founded, why didn't MIT do anything as his employer? They have a statutory obligation to provide a safe workplace.

sascha_sl 7y ago
I hate to be the one to draw the feminism card on HN because I know I'll attract a swarm of people that'll 'disagree' with me by shouting things at me, but that is called rape culture, and despite the confusing name, it is not solely about rape. If that sounds hard to believe I can empathise, it took a personal anecdote for me to get and notice the spread of it too. If you're wondering how one would be disincentivized, have a lot at how people react: https://medium.com/p/a7e41e784f88/responses/show https://medium.com/p/a7e41e784f88/responses/show
- EdwardDiego 7y ago
  I scrolled for a bit, but that didn't answer my question about MIT's culpability and lack of action on allegations made to them. Oh wait, you're saying that no allegations were made to them? Did I read that right?
  - sascha_sl 7y ago
    I don't know, there doesn't seem to be any documented instances of that I can find. Doesn't mean there wasn't any, but as I said, disincentives to reporting are high.
    - EdwardDiego 7y ago
      Which makes me worry about MIT the organisation then - a healthy organisation would have processes in place to minimise those disincentives.