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> Unless there is convincing data otherwise it would still be a filter for wealth. If a college degree provides opportunity then the wealthy will arrange for th

> Unless there is convincing data otherwise it would still be a filter for wealth. If a college degree provides opportunity then the wealthy will arrange for their children to have college degrees. As a counterexample: Dutch universities can’t select for students (for most studies), and annual fees are ~€2k annually (regulated). There will be some bias towards wealthier backgrounds that are more able to invest that money and time, but compared to the US/UK systems I expect it is minimal. This is not unique, I think systems in the Nordics and Germany similar.

MaximumYComb 7y ago
In Australia, our entry to universities is dependent largely on a grade resulting from our schooling. The grade is based on two parts: in school assignments/tests and a large end of school exam block. The thing is that the assignment/test part scales based on how well the average student from your school/class went on the final exam. Wealthy students get the best grades since their parents send them to expensive schools designed to maximise this system. They then get into the "best" universities.
aianus 7y ago
> Dutch universities can’t select for students What do the Dutch do if there are 10k spots available in a given university and 20k people apply?
- adamsea 7y ago
  They would probably have their government fund building more univiersities and training / encouraging more people to become professors?
  - mcguire 7y ago
    Just like that? I didn't know that the Dutch had unlimited money. Weird that the portion of the population with degrees (44%) is comparable to the US (46%).
- hectormalot 7y ago
  Unlikely that this kind of growth suddenly happens. Growth of +\- 20% can usually be handled (eg booking a larger room for the lectures). So studies can usually grow their teaching base as needed. Exceptions happen: eg the popularity of CSI lead to a huge boom in people wanting to study forensic sciences. IIRC they were allowed to limit the seats for those studies back in the day. Similarly, dentistry and doctors have a fixed amount of seats. They have a lottery that is biased based on your high school grades. Overall I think this system has the better outcomes ‘on average’, but that the true top students are not challenged as much as they would be in a more selective system such as the US/UK

MaximumYComb 7y ago

In Australia, our entry to universities is dependent largely on a grade resulting from our schooling. The grade is based on two parts: in school assignments/tests and a large end of school exam block. The thing is that the assignment/test part scales based on how well the average student from your school/class went on the final exam. Wealthy students get the best grades since their parents send them to expensive schools designed to maximise this system. They then get into the "best" universities.

aianus 7y ago

> Dutch universities can’t select for students What do the Dutch do if there are 10k spots available in a given university and 20k people apply?

adamsea 7y ago
They would probably have their government fund building more univiersities and training / encouraging more people to become professors?
- mcguire 7y ago
  Just like that? I didn't know that the Dutch had unlimited money. Weird that the portion of the population with degrees (44%) is comparable to the US (46%).
hectormalot 7y ago
Unlikely that this kind of growth suddenly happens. Growth of +\- 20% can usually be handled (eg booking a larger room for the lectures). So studies can usually grow their teaching base as needed. Exceptions happen: eg the popularity of CSI lead to a huge boom in people wanting to study forensic sciences. IIRC they were allowed to limit the seats for those studies back in the day. Similarly, dentistry and doctors have a fixed amount of seats. They have a lottery that is biased based on your high school grades. Overall I think this system has the better outcomes ‘on average’, but that the true top students are not challenged as much as they would be in a more selective system such as the US/UK