11 ms·

As someone who uses Windows for industrial PCs, I'm pretty appalled. We've been hanging on to Windows 7, including side-loading drivers into the installation i

As someone who uses Windows for industrial PCs, I'm pretty appalled. We've been hanging on to Windows 7, including side-loading drivers into the installation image for modern hardware, because this kind of stuff that Windows 10 does is in these cases simply unacceptable (random tip: Go for AMD, their Windows 7 support is way better than Intel, do not use Intel chipset series 300). I can't have PCs bogged down downloading updates or randomly restarting when they're controlling endurance test rigs designed to run 24/7. Driver issues with Linux, no real vendor support and (believe it or not) stability was the reason Windows prevailed in these applications. And MS threw that all out the window. Oh well, I'd get paid to rewrite the control software in Linux, I'm not really complaining, I just hope there's enough driver support (looking at you, National Instruments...).

wvenable 7y ago
Why are you using a consumer level OS/setup for this? PC's setup in a corporate environment are tightly controlled, even with Windows 10.
- huntie 7y ago
  Windows is pretty common for control systems in factories. One factory I worked in used a web application, the one I'm in now uses VB applications. One of the control systems I use is running Windows2K. These computers have Internet access too.
- CamperBob2 7y ago
  Because they're all consumer level OSes now, unless you can afford an enterprise license. Not every organization can. It used to be perfectly reasonable to run light industrial and test equipment on Windows.
- MrStonedOne 7y ago
  Why are you perpetuating the myth that there is a difference?
kyberias 7y ago
You should use the appropriate edition of Windows 10 for your use case: Windows 10 IoT Enterprise. You can disable all the updates and everything you want.
- temac 7y ago
  Technically, maybe. Commercially, the licensing is a huge mess. In some areas with low volumes you certainly don't want (or maybe MS won't even sell to you under reasonable terms) to deal with that. Even with medium/high volume I would find it nightmare.
  - kyberias 7y ago
    It's not a mess. Windows 10 IoT Enterprise has a price-tag. I'm involved in a low-volume system and it's not a nightmare.
- klingonopera 7y ago
  Thanks for this. I must've shrugged it off initially for using the "IoT"-buzzword (who are they selling too?). Reading up a bit on it here[1], and again, I'm appalled. I don't want to waste time and money cherry-picking Windows versions. There's IoT Core, Mobile and Enterprise, and then there's Enterprise LTSB, apparently with year codes too, what gives? Nah, all this time and money wasted doing that can be invested in making the jump to Linux, because unlike Windows, chances are, that that will be indeed just a one-time investment. Linux also has a plus of making ghosting hard-drive images much easier, since there are no licensing issues to consider, and therefore could also be done completely offline (PCs are hooked up to local network for remote VNC connections, but are blocked from the Internet). It may be wishful thinking, but I hope that just like servers are 99% running Linux, the same may one day be said for industrial applications... looks like I'm on the front line, lock and load! [1]: https://social.msdn.microsoft.com/Forums/vstudio/en-US/86c34321-c8bd-46d4-937f-7fda2e249410/is-windows-10-enterprise-and-windows-10-iot-enterprise-the-same https://social.msdn.microsoft.com/Forums/vstudio/en-US/86c34...
  - kyberias 7y ago
missosoup 7y ago
Windows 10 is an absolute clusterfuck in video walls/advertising screens/embedded or anything of the sort. Watch windows 10 try to force an update during a live streamed esports match https://clips.twitch.tv/BadPlumpStarLitFam https://clips.twitch.tv/BadPlumpStarLitFam
- andreygrehov 7y ago
  This one is not as great as a mandatory restart during the 3D model rendering process - https://twitter.com/fillbeforeshill/status/1075351420407332864 https://twitter.com/fillbeforeshill/status/10753514204073328...
  - malcolmxtucker 7y ago
    Wtf was that plot twist at the end though?
drngdds 7y ago
I'm pretty sure Windows 10 LTSB exists for this specific use case
- klingonopera 7y ago
  Probably. But we went from "Here's an operating system available for everyone, consumer and corporate alike!" to "This one's for consumer, this one's for corporate" and MS and their distributors would be fools not to capitalize on that. In other words, as a business, you now have less choice in distributors, which will increase the investment cost for an operating system. And then there's the whole privacy issue on top of that, too. It's just a mess, and the customers are intended to take the brunt of it. I want to say "No, thank you" and I'm currently figuring out if that's viable, i.e. Linux.
- folkhack 7y ago
  It does but good luck getting licensing. They explicitly try to make getting the LTSB/C difficult because they know everyone would buy it if they offered a "clean" version of Windows. But - if you can swing it - LTSB/C is the only thing that I would prefer for any sort of automation etc.
  - klingonopera 7y ago
    Checking around, here in Germany averages for Enterprise LTSB vs standard Enterprise is €275 vs €70. Standard Enterprise comes with forced updates and mandatory restarts, yes?
    - folkhack 7y ago
      I do believe so but I don't touch that bull. It spies on you I know that. Last enterprise copy I had I sniffed the network traffic post setup and it was a slap in the face. I also think it comes with the Windows Store too. The ONLY reason I run Windows machines is to do automation on them - I have zero tolerance for the OS.

wvenable 7y ago

Why are you using a consumer level OS/setup for this? PC's setup in a corporate environment are tightly controlled, even with Windows 10.

huntie 7y ago
Windows is pretty common for control systems in factories. One factory I worked in used a web application, the one I'm in now uses VB applications. One of the control systems I use is running Windows2K. These computers have Internet access too.
CamperBob2 7y ago
Because they're all consumer level OSes now, unless you can afford an enterprise license. Not every organization can. It used to be perfectly reasonable to run light industrial and test equipment on Windows.
MrStonedOne 7y ago
Why are you perpetuating the myth that there is a difference?

kyberias 7y ago

You should use the appropriate edition of Windows 10 for your use case: Windows 10 IoT Enterprise. You can disable all the updates and everything you want.

temac 7y ago
Technically, maybe. Commercially, the licensing is a huge mess. In some areas with low volumes you certainly don't want (or maybe MS won't even sell to you under reasonable terms) to deal with that. Even with medium/high volume I would find it nightmare.
- kyberias 7y ago
  It's not a mess. Windows 10 IoT Enterprise has a price-tag. I'm involved in a low-volume system and it's not a nightmare.
klingonopera 7y ago
Thanks for this. I must've shrugged it off initially for using the "IoT"-buzzword (who are they selling too?). Reading up a bit on it here[1], and again, I'm appalled. I don't want to waste time and money cherry-picking Windows versions. There's IoT Core, Mobile and Enterprise, and then there's Enterprise LTSB, apparently with year codes too, what gives? Nah, all this time and money wasted doing that can be invested in making the jump to Linux, because unlike Windows, chances are, that that will be indeed just a one-time investment. Linux also has a plus of making ghosting hard-drive images much easier, since there are no licensing issues to consider, and therefore could also be done completely offline (PCs are hooked up to local network for remote VNC connections, but are blocked from the Internet). It may be wishful thinking, but I hope that just like servers are 99% running Linux, the same may one day be said for industrial applications... looks like I'm on the front line, lock and load! [1]: https://social.msdn.microsoft.com/Forums/vstudio/en-US/86c34321-c8bd-46d4-937f-7fda2e249410/is-windows-10-enterprise-and-windows-10-iot-enterprise-the-same https://social.msdn.microsoft.com/Forums/vstudio/en-US/86c34...
- kyberias 7y ago

missosoup 7y ago

Windows 10 is an absolute clusterfuck in video walls/advertising screens/embedded or anything of the sort. Watch windows 10 try to force an update during a live streamed esports match https://clips.twitch.tv/BadPlumpStarLitFam https://clips.twitch.tv/BadPlumpStarLitFam

andreygrehov 7y ago
This one is not as great as a mandatory restart during the 3D model rendering process - https://twitter.com/fillbeforeshill/status/1075351420407332864 https://twitter.com/fillbeforeshill/status/10753514204073328...
- malcolmxtucker 7y ago
  Wtf was that plot twist at the end though?

drngdds 7y ago

I'm pretty sure Windows 10 LTSB exists for this specific use case

klingonopera 7y ago
Probably. But we went from "Here's an operating system available for everyone, consumer and corporate alike!" to "This one's for consumer, this one's for corporate" and MS and their distributors would be fools not to capitalize on that. In other words, as a business, you now have less choice in distributors, which will increase the investment cost for an operating system. And then there's the whole privacy issue on top of that, too. It's just a mess, and the customers are intended to take the brunt of it. I want to say "No, thank you" and I'm currently figuring out if that's viable, i.e. Linux.
folkhack 7y ago
It does but good luck getting licensing. They explicitly try to make getting the LTSB/C difficult because they know everyone would buy it if they offered a "clean" version of Windows. But - if you can swing it - LTSB/C is the only thing that I would prefer for any sort of automation etc.
- klingonopera 7y ago
  Checking around, here in Germany averages for Enterprise LTSB vs standard Enterprise is €275 vs €70. Standard Enterprise comes with forced updates and mandatory restarts, yes?
  - folkhack 7y ago
    I do believe so but I don't touch that bull. It spies on you I know that. Last enterprise copy I had I sniffed the network traffic post setup and it was a slap in the face. I also think it comes with the Windows Store too. The ONLY reason I run Windows machines is to do automation on them - I have zero tolerance for the OS.