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Just like Apple makes the iPhone a "Mobile computer as a service". It's a managed device that makes life much safer and easier for most people. There will like

Just like Apple makes the iPhone a "Mobile computer as a service". It's a managed device that makes life much safer and easier for most people. There will likely always be the DIY solutions for folks who prefer that. And that's good too.

AnonymousPlanet 7y ago
However, OP is not talking about a mobile device, but a PC. The PC is in the same device bracket as Macs. And Apple does not provide Macs "as computer as a service". Everything works with a local account. I don't even need to have an Apple ID. The OS also remembers your choice of disabling telemetry, without resetting it after the next update. Apple provides managed and unmanaged. Microsoft appears not to provide unmanaged in the near future. This would remove the entire Windows PC bracket from the list of unmanaged options. That would be an enormous loss, and not just for some "folks who prefer DIY".
- FireBeyond 7y ago
  > Everything works with a local account. I don't even need to have an Apple ID. Like App Store? Or are we talking about "for varying degrees of 'everything'"?
  - AnonymousPlanet 7y ago
    "Everything works" means every aspect of the operating system works. If you are dependent on apps from the App Store, go use the App Store. The process is similar to buying them via a vendor or installing games via Steam. For those who really need that, it's there. But it's not necessary.
  - filleduchaos 7y ago
    Have you ever used a Mac?
    - vetinari 7y ago
      Mac App Store definitely requires Apple ID.
      - pndy 7y ago
        Of course but you can still - at least for now, install applications from disk images (.dmg) and toss .app containers into /Applications - that doesn't require Apple ID.
        vetinari 7y ago
        Not all applications. For example, if I need Wireguard VPN client, I must install it from App Store. It is otherwise open-source app, but without the signature from App Store, it won't work.
      - filleduchaos 7y ago
        I've used the App Store like one whole time in my entire life and that was to upgrade Xcode once. Elsewhere you mention a VPN client requiring you to download it from the App Store - well take it up with the app developer then because I've used tons of VPN clients on Mac (currently using ExpressVPN in fact) and all were straight out of DMGs.
        vetinari 7y ago
        Wireguard uses the new Network Extensions API, and that usage requries entitlement granted by Apple signature. There's no avoiding that. I've also used different VPNs that didn't require that - but they also didn't integrate so well as wg does. For Xcode, there is another way - it is downloadable from the developer pages.

AnonymousPlanet 7y ago

However, OP is not talking about a mobile device, but a PC. The PC is in the same device bracket as Macs. And Apple does not provide Macs "as computer as a service". Everything works with a local account. I don't even need to have an Apple ID. The OS also remembers your choice of disabling telemetry, without resetting it after the next update. Apple provides managed and unmanaged. Microsoft appears not to provide unmanaged in the near future. This would remove the entire Windows PC bracket from the list of unmanaged options. That would be an enormous loss, and not just for some "folks who prefer DIY".

FireBeyond 7y ago
> Everything works with a local account. I don't even need to have an Apple ID. Like App Store? Or are we talking about "for varying degrees of 'everything'"?
- AnonymousPlanet 7y ago
  "Everything works" means every aspect of the operating system works. If you are dependent on apps from the App Store, go use the App Store. The process is similar to buying them via a vendor or installing games via Steam. For those who really need that, it's there. But it's not necessary.
- filleduchaos 7y ago
  Have you ever used a Mac?
  - vetinari 7y ago
    Mac App Store definitely requires Apple ID.
    - pndy 7y ago
      Of course but you can still - at least for now, install applications from disk images (.dmg) and toss .app containers into /Applications - that doesn't require Apple ID.
      - vetinari 7y ago
        Not all applications. For example, if I need Wireguard VPN client, I must install it from App Store. It is otherwise open-source app, but without the signature from App Store, it won't work.
    - filleduchaos 7y ago
      I've used the App Store like one whole time in my entire life and that was to upgrade Xcode once. Elsewhere you mention a VPN client requiring you to download it from the App Store - well take it up with the app developer then because I've used tons of VPN clients on Mac (currently using ExpressVPN in fact) and all were straight out of DMGs.
      - vetinari 7y ago
        Wireguard uses the new Network Extensions API, and that usage requries entitlement granted by Apple signature. There's no avoiding that. I've also used different VPNs that didn't require that - but they also didn't integrate so well as wg does. For Xcode, there is another way - it is downloadable from the developer pages.