4 ms·

That is a good question. I guess it's kind of like making friends at school -- you socialize because you're in the same place, not because of some deep inherent

That is a good question. I guess it's kind of like making friends at school -- you socialize because you're in the same place, not because of some deep inherent connection. Coupled with a lack of work it may be hard to move jobs. I am surprised at how easily people in HN take on new jobs and negotiate for better pay.

artsyca 7y ago
Yes, but the difference is we choose our work families -- ostensibly we're working together towards a common vision of some sort whereas we are simply thrust into our school lives by our parents Corporatism has a rich history and it used to be 'for life' whereas nowadays the stark and frankly short sighted careerism plaguing industry is having a detriment on true long term prospects
artsyca 7y ago
In other words, true corporatism relies on deep long term connection and vulnerable intimacy, whereas false corporatism rests on shallow guarded careerism and we're investing our entire livelihoods on a confidence scam
artsyca 7y ago
What I mean is, writing software with other people is about as intimate as you can get, you are literally combining your thoughts on paper and creating a shared paradigm If you believe that can be done while simulateously avoiding all intimacy on a personal level, the irony will defeat you every time and your software will fail Being a true software dev means warts and all or not at all
- snagglegaggle 7y ago
  Hmm, this does explain what I had experienced. Most of my friends are not in IT. There are people I eventually get to know (and that others I know get to know) it's just going into a job trying to make friends can be an extremely bad idea, at least from what I have seen. Thanks for the comments
  - artsyca 7y ago
    Hey you seem relatively new to HN -- welcome to Hotel California
    - artsyca 7y ago
      It's like a git repo.. you can check out, but you can never leave
  - artsyca 7y ago
    Work people ought to be closer than family and friends if you really think about it --
    - artsyca 7y ago
      Hear me out: assuming we have some kind of freedom and actually choose to work at a company and we're not slaves -- We are investing the vast majority of our efforts on work, even 8 hours per day, not to mention most of our productive moments and brain cycles. Our immediate family comes a distant second in many cases If the people we work with mean nothing to us, how can we justify investing so much of our best selves with them? What does that mean for our so called loved ones whom we sacrifice continuously? Are we sacrificing them for people we hardly care about? That means we hardly care about them even less! The only way this works is if we actually care about the people we work with and the mission of the company, otherwise stay home
      - bigred100 7y ago
        The reason I invest my time and energy in my job is because working and maintaining a career is generally necessary for someone in my position. Within limits the people (I don’t want extraordinarily unpleasant coworkers) and the mission (I probably won’t do anything I find immoral) aren’t extraordinarily important to me. I generally like the word “professional”.
        artsyca 7y ago
- meowface 7y ago
  I completely disagree. I can work closely with someone without being friends with them, or sharing anything personal about myself. That's one reason I like open source development. You can treat everyone, including yourself, as formless brains in a vat, and just focus on the tasks at hand. If it's something like co-founding a startup, that's different. But I don't work a day job to form "intimate relationships". I've found the less intimate and personal, the more productive and smooth things go. But maybe I'm abnormal.
  - artsyca 7y ago
    I'm of the opinion that sharing code is the most intimate act that people can engage in, it's like writing a story and you both have to agree on the plot, the characters, the layout.. now you might say you can spend 8 - 10 hours a day in isolation writing code but I'm telling you that's impossible -- even if I allude to the old adage 'to go quickly go alone, to go far travel with company' eventually you're going to need to know the person you're travelling with because holding back is actually much harder than simply putting down your defences Admittedly, remote work is something different but being colocated for extended periods of time even if you are an island, most people are not and you ought to give a care to your fellow human beings because any one could be going through some shit, as we are all wont to do -- look at TechLead for example.. his wife left him!! did he even mention it to his cubicle mates or did he just maintain a stiff upper lip?
  - artsyca 7y ago
    As well, even if you yourself disagree, can you imagine that some percentage of human beings might disagree with your disagreement? I view humans in a systems-based perspective, you can't possibly assume everyone thinks the same way you do?

artsyca 7y ago

Yes, but the difference is we choose our work families -- ostensibly we're working together towards a common vision of some sort whereas we are simply thrust into our school lives by our parents Corporatism has a rich history and it used to be 'for life' whereas nowadays the stark and frankly short sighted careerism plaguing industry is having a detriment on true long term prospects

artsyca 7y ago

In other words, true corporatism relies on deep long term connection and vulnerable intimacy, whereas false corporatism rests on shallow guarded careerism and we're investing our entire livelihoods on a confidence scam

artsyca 7y ago

What I mean is, writing software with other people is about as intimate as you can get, you are literally combining your thoughts on paper and creating a shared paradigm If you believe that can be done while simulateously avoiding all intimacy on a personal level, the irony will defeat you every time and your software will fail Being a true software dev means warts and all or not at all

snagglegaggle 7y ago
Hmm, this does explain what I had experienced. Most of my friends are not in IT. There are people I eventually get to know (and that others I know get to know) it's just going into a job trying to make friends can be an extremely bad idea, at least from what I have seen. Thanks for the comments
- artsyca 7y ago
  Hey you seem relatively new to HN -- welcome to Hotel California
  - artsyca 7y ago
    It's like a git repo.. you can check out, but you can never leave
- artsyca 7y ago
  Work people ought to be closer than family and friends if you really think about it --
  - artsyca 7y ago
    Hear me out: assuming we have some kind of freedom and actually choose to work at a company and we're not slaves -- We are investing the vast majority of our efforts on work, even 8 hours per day, not to mention most of our productive moments and brain cycles. Our immediate family comes a distant second in many cases If the people we work with mean nothing to us, how can we justify investing so much of our best selves with them? What does that mean for our so called loved ones whom we sacrifice continuously? Are we sacrificing them for people we hardly care about? That means we hardly care about them even less! The only way this works is if we actually care about the people we work with and the mission of the company, otherwise stay home
    - bigred100 7y ago
      The reason I invest my time and energy in my job is because working and maintaining a career is generally necessary for someone in my position. Within limits the people (I don’t want extraordinarily unpleasant coworkers) and the mission (I probably won’t do anything I find immoral) aren’t extraordinarily important to me. I generally like the word “professional”.
      - artsyca 7y ago
meowface 7y ago
I completely disagree. I can work closely with someone without being friends with them, or sharing anything personal about myself. That's one reason I like open source development. You can treat everyone, including yourself, as formless brains in a vat, and just focus on the tasks at hand. If it's something like co-founding a startup, that's different. But I don't work a day job to form "intimate relationships". I've found the less intimate and personal, the more productive and smooth things go. But maybe I'm abnormal.
- artsyca 7y ago
  I'm of the opinion that sharing code is the most intimate act that people can engage in, it's like writing a story and you both have to agree on the plot, the characters, the layout.. now you might say you can spend 8 - 10 hours a day in isolation writing code but I'm telling you that's impossible -- even if I allude to the old adage 'to go quickly go alone, to go far travel with company' eventually you're going to need to know the person you're travelling with because holding back is actually much harder than simply putting down your defences Admittedly, remote work is something different but being colocated for extended periods of time even if you are an island, most people are not and you ought to give a care to your fellow human beings because any one could be going through some shit, as we are all wont to do -- look at TechLead for example.. his wife left him!! did he even mention it to his cubicle mates or did he just maintain a stiff upper lip?
- artsyca 7y ago
  As well, even if you yourself disagree, can you imagine that some percentage of human beings might disagree with your disagreement? I view humans in a systems-based perspective, you can't possibly assume everyone thinks the same way you do?