4 ms·

> I don't get why he doesn't simply apologize He could give a fake apology with the hope that this would stop this whole drama, but I believe that he is more p

> I don't get why he doesn't simply apologize He could give a fake apology with the hope that this would stop this whole drama, but I believe that he is more principled than that. Plus, apologising for something that you have not done wrong hurts.

hutzlibu 7y ago
How about "sorry that I hurt feelings with insensitive wording"? Does only work though, if he is sorry, which is not likely. Because the thing is, allmost all rapist defend themself by saying the victim presented themself willingly and when RMS just declared that the most plausible scenario that the epstein underage prostitute present herself willingly, then he should not be surprised if people understand that wrong and feel hurt, if he has some empathy. Now whether he has some, remains actually unclear to me after all I read now (but I never met him in person). Anyhow, for someone talking so much abouth ethics and leading a organization about it, I believe empathy should be a required skill for leadership, otherwise it can (and was and partly is) be seen as a bad joke.
- tptacek 7y ago
  Honestly I think the fixation on the Epstein comments is unhelpful for understanding what's happened here. You ever see the science experiment where you supercool a container of distilled water, tap it, and then watch it instantly turn to ice? That's what's happened here. And just as the tap didn't actually freeze the water, neither did the Epstein reporting doom Stallman; rather, it was the long prior history of unfortunate comments about pedophilia and of allegations of harassment. It was a running joke around MIT that women would place ferns in their office to repel him; his notoriety was enough to create special meaning for ferns. It's surprising he lasted as long as he did, just like it's surprising that you can get a jug of water below freezing without actually freezing it.
  - hutzlibu 7y ago
    "Honestly I think the fixation on the Epstein comments is unhelpful for understanding what's happened here." The comments were misquoted and RMS fans believe that this is the sole reason for him being fired and are outraged.
- dependenttypes 7y ago
  > How about "sorry that I hurt feelings with insensitive wording"? Good thing, he already did that. https://stallman.org/archives/2019-jul-oct.html#14_September_2019_(Statements_about_Epstein) https://stallman.org/archives/2019-jul-oct.html#14_September... > allmost all rapist defend themself by saying the victim presented themself willingly In which case they (the rapists) are lying, otherwise they would not be rapists. What about victims of false rape reports though? Do they say that as often? > RMS just declared that the most plausible scenario that the epstein underage prostitute present herself willingly Are you saying that this is implausible or even unlikely that she presented herself to be willing to Minsky? (note: he did not say that she presented herself willingly, there is an important difference between the two) > if he has some empathy Apparently I do not have any empathy for not understanding what the issue with this statement is, thanks. I believe that you have adopted a very neurotypical view of empathy.
  - hutzlibu 7y ago
    Well, good that he apoligied. But why did not someone said to to the parent, and just to me 2 levels deeper? But also maybe a more worded apology, that shows what caused the "misunderstanding" would be helpful. "Are you saying that this is implausible or even unlikely that she presented herself to be willing to Minsky? " I am saying I don't know any of the persons involved personally, live far away, so I would never make any statements regarding what actually happened. But in general yes, I believe when someone is coerced into prostitution, it should be obvious to spot real willingnes from forced one, unless you don't want to notice. "Apparently I do not have any empathy for not understanding what the issue with this statement is, thanks" And no, you do not, yes. Because the issue is sexism/patriacharlism. Strong men sexually abusing weak women/girls, what was the norm for centuries and was ok to do so (and in some parts of the world still is). And apparently also partly in the MIT, if Epstein had so much connection there. So in this context, when a victim makes an accusation - and someone uses the defence, "the victim appeared willing" than yes, you clearly lack empathy, to not see how that might hurt feelings and has a high chance of getting misunderstood. And that we have media, who does not care about truth, when there is a scandal and a scapegoat is a very sad other story.

hutzlibu 7y ago

How about "sorry that I hurt feelings with insensitive wording"? Does only work though, if he is sorry, which is not likely. Because the thing is, allmost all rapist defend themself by saying the victim presented themself willingly and when RMS just declared that the most plausible scenario that the epstein underage prostitute present herself willingly, then he should not be surprised if people understand that wrong and feel hurt, if he has some empathy. Now whether he has some, remains actually unclear to me after all I read now (but I never met him in person). Anyhow, for someone talking so much abouth ethics and leading a organization about it, I believe empathy should be a required skill for leadership, otherwise it can (and was and partly is) be seen as a bad joke.

tptacek 7y ago
Honestly I think the fixation on the Epstein comments is unhelpful for understanding what's happened here. You ever see the science experiment where you supercool a container of distilled water, tap it, and then watch it instantly turn to ice? That's what's happened here. And just as the tap didn't actually freeze the water, neither did the Epstein reporting doom Stallman; rather, it was the long prior history of unfortunate comments about pedophilia and of allegations of harassment. It was a running joke around MIT that women would place ferns in their office to repel him; his notoriety was enough to create special meaning for ferns. It's surprising he lasted as long as he did, just like it's surprising that you can get a jug of water below freezing without actually freezing it.
- hutzlibu 7y ago
  "Honestly I think the fixation on the Epstein comments is unhelpful for understanding what's happened here." The comments were misquoted and RMS fans believe that this is the sole reason for him being fired and are outraged.
dependenttypes 7y ago
> How about "sorry that I hurt feelings with insensitive wording"? Good thing, he already did that. https://stallman.org/archives/2019-jul-oct.html#14_September_2019_(Statements_about_Epstein) https://stallman.org/archives/2019-jul-oct.html#14_September... > allmost all rapist defend themself by saying the victim presented themself willingly In which case they (the rapists) are lying, otherwise they would not be rapists. What about victims of false rape reports though? Do they say that as often? > RMS just declared that the most plausible scenario that the epstein underage prostitute present herself willingly Are you saying that this is implausible or even unlikely that she presented herself to be willing to Minsky? (note: he did not say that she presented herself willingly, there is an important difference between the two) > if he has some empathy Apparently I do not have any empathy for not understanding what the issue with this statement is, thanks. I believe that you have adopted a very neurotypical view of empathy.
- hutzlibu 7y ago
  Well, good that he apoligied. But why did not someone said to to the parent, and just to me 2 levels deeper? But also maybe a more worded apology, that shows what caused the "misunderstanding" would be helpful. "Are you saying that this is implausible or even unlikely that she presented herself to be willing to Minsky? " I am saying I don't know any of the persons involved personally, live far away, so I would never make any statements regarding what actually happened. But in general yes, I believe when someone is coerced into prostitution, it should be obvious to spot real willingnes from forced one, unless you don't want to notice. "Apparently I do not have any empathy for not understanding what the issue with this statement is, thanks" And no, you do not, yes. Because the issue is sexism/patriacharlism. Strong men sexually abusing weak women/girls, what was the norm for centuries and was ok to do so (and in some parts of the world still is). And apparently also partly in the MIT, if Epstein had so much connection there. So in this context, when a victim makes an accusation - and someone uses the defence, "the victim appeared willing" than yes, you clearly lack empathy, to not see how that might hurt feelings and has a high chance of getting misunderstood. And that we have media, who does not care about truth, when there is a scandal and a scapegoat is a very sad other story.