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I'm going to be a pedant here - that does not look like a swarm, and they don't claim it is (in the video, at least). By "swarm" I would understand that all ha

I'm going to be a pedant here - that does not look like a swarm, and they don't claim it is (in the video, at least). By "swarm" I would understand that all have the same programming and that the assembly process is emergent from simpler instructions plus exploration and feedback. Instead they appear to be programmed to act sequentially with a pre-planned set of actions. There is no feedback, no emergence. In short, it's nowhere near as cool as you seem to think it is. It's just a bunch of dumb machines doing exactly what they are told to do, with no smarts.

scott_s 16y ago
No smarts? From their behavior, I got the impression that the robots were assessing what was the next step in construction, which included assessing if another robot was still working on construction. They also had to avoid collisions. Anything programmed by humans is a "dumb machine doing exactly what they are told." I think you meant that to mean each individual step was hardcoded. I don't think it was. I think they were all following the same algorithm. The group certainly spends a lot of time on path planning: http://repository.upenn.edu/grasp_papers/ http://repository.upenn.edu/grasp_papers/
- andrewcooke 16y ago
  Actually, you may be more right than you know (sorry). I've found this quote: "We tell the quadrotors what structure to build and they figure out the assembly plan and then build it." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W18Z3UnnS_0&feature=player_embedded https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W18Z3UnnS_0&feature=play... It still doesn't look very swarm-like to me (more like some kind of planner algorithm; I know the quote implies a distributed intelligence, but look at the way they queue always in exactly the same place, do laps, etc etc), but that certainly sounds more promising.
- deleted 16y ago
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SeanLuke 16y ago
Correct about the swarm -- indeed it's not a multiagent problem -- but perhaps a bit unfair regarding the "dumb machine" part. This appears to be a "multi-body" problem (rather than a "multi-agent") problem: that is, there is likely one primary decision-maker which dictates the construction task ordering, likely computed via a partial-order multi-body planner. That's part 1 of the AI. But there's another part that's equally interesting. The multi-body planner produces a series of construction steps. Each step is ordered with regard to certain steps, unordered with regard to other steps (these can be done in any order but not simultaneously), and explicitly declared parallel with yet other steps (they can be done simultaneously). The quad-roters grab the steps and perform them in parallel when possible, and at least form a queue otherwise. Last, the quad-rotors have to perform these steps without hitting one another, so there's a significant real-time multi-body path-planning problem involved. Multi-body planning, scheduling, and plan monitoring is nontrivial and should not be so lightly dismissed.
- andrewcooke 16y ago
  thank-you! (i'm sorry for "dismissing" the work; i do understand the amount of effort involved, but i was trying to emphasize what was not happening; thanks for the extra info on the unordered work, etc).
sliverstorm 16y ago
Hey, you can't have emergent properties before you have foundation properties. Can't build a building with magical emergent properties if you don't first figure out how to make a bot that can lift the beams.

scott_s 16y ago

No smarts? From their behavior, I got the impression that the robots were assessing what was the next step in construction, which included assessing if another robot was still working on construction. They also had to avoid collisions. Anything programmed by humans is a "dumb machine doing exactly what they are told." I think you meant that to mean each individual step was hardcoded. I don't think it was. I think they were all following the same algorithm. The group certainly spends a lot of time on path planning: http://repository.upenn.edu/grasp_papers/ http://repository.upenn.edu/grasp_papers/

andrewcooke 16y ago
Actually, you may be more right than you know (sorry). I've found this quote: "We tell the quadrotors what structure to build and they figure out the assembly plan and then build it." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W18Z3UnnS_0&feature=player_embedded https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W18Z3UnnS_0&feature=play... It still doesn't look very swarm-like to me (more like some kind of planner algorithm; I know the quote implies a distributed intelligence, but look at the way they queue always in exactly the same place, do laps, etc etc), but that certainly sounds more promising.
deleted 16y ago
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SeanLuke 16y ago

Correct about the swarm -- indeed it's not a multiagent problem -- but perhaps a bit unfair regarding the "dumb machine" part. This appears to be a "multi-body" problem (rather than a "multi-agent") problem: that is, there is likely one primary decision-maker which dictates the construction task ordering, likely computed via a partial-order multi-body planner. That's part 1 of the AI. But there's another part that's equally interesting. The multi-body planner produces a series of construction steps. Each step is ordered with regard to certain steps, unordered with regard to other steps (these can be done in any order but not simultaneously), and explicitly declared parallel with yet other steps (they can be done simultaneously). The quad-roters grab the steps and perform them in parallel when possible, and at least form a queue otherwise. Last, the quad-rotors have to perform these steps without hitting one another, so there's a significant real-time multi-body path-planning problem involved. Multi-body planning, scheduling, and plan monitoring is nontrivial and should not be so lightly dismissed.

andrewcooke 16y ago
thank-you! (i'm sorry for "dismissing" the work; i do understand the amount of effort involved, but i was trying to emphasize what was not happening; thanks for the extra info on the unordered work, etc).

sliverstorm 16y ago

Hey, you can't have emergent properties before you have foundation properties. Can't build a building with magical emergent properties if you don't first figure out how to make a bot that can lift the beams.