3 ms·

>Have you considered the possibility that he might not be able to pay? then maybe he should be a little more humble about what he expects? that's my point.

DoreenMichele 7y ago
Low expectations and humility do not appear to be how he furthered free software as a movement in defiance of the world.
- tptacek 7y ago
  I haven't seen so much hostility from the world so much as 25 years of people becoming wealthy by working on free software, but then, I've only been paying attention since the mid-1990s.
  - DoreenMichele 7y ago
    My remark certainly wasn't hostile towards RMS, so I'm really not clear what you mean.
    - tptacek 7y ago
      I didn't say you were. I'm responding to your remark about the work Stallman did "in defiance of the world". I rather think the opposite happened, that Stallman (like several other people) made a judgement about how the world wanted to operate, and was proved (at least for the time period we're in now) correct.
      - DoreenMichele 7y ago
        I used that phrase because his work did not get a lot of practical support (especially at first). It was quite a hard path to take. People were hardly throwing money at him and saying "You go!" or something. I generally agree with what little I understand of the principles behind his work. But "selling out" for money (and locking up code to facilitate that) was the trend he was defying and it's a vastly easier path than the one he chose.
        tptacek 7y ago
        Again, and not to perpetuate an unproductive argument, but the opposite is probably true; it appears in a lot of cases to be easier to make money not locking up your code, which is why open source software dominates so many markets today, and is integral to virtually every commercial product.
        DoreenMichele 7y ago
        I'm not a software insider, but that's not my understanding of how that works. Free software seems to get used quite a lot to make money, but people actually working on free software seem to mostly not make (enough) money on it. It's a passion project and then it gets incorporated into things where parts are somehow locked up as a means to facilitate making money. Not trying to argue with you. I just honestly don't understand it to work exactly like that, but some of your phrasing seems ambiguous and I'm wondering if I even understood you.
        maxerickson 7y ago
        There's lots of huge companies doing Free Software. IBM bought Redhat at a valuation of $34 billion.
        hollerith 7y ago
        >his work did not get a lot of practical support In 1990 Stallman received a MacArthur grant, which comes with $500,000. During the late 1990s, many of the founding fathers of free software were granted stock during IPOs. Here for example is documentation that Eric Raymond got stock that ended up being worth $36 million (for a couple of years until the bust in 2001): https://www.theregister.co.uk/1999/12/10/ipo_makes_va_linux_instant/ https://www.theregister.co.uk/1999/12/10/ipo_makes_va_linux_... Now Eric Raymond got that stock for accepting a position on the Dot Com's board of directors, and I can well imagine Stallman refusing all such directorships on principle, but OTOH I would be surprised if none of the founders of successful Dot Coms during that period donated generously to Stallman directly or via the FSF. In general, almost everybody with as much fame and public reputation for moral rectitude ("prestige"?) as Stallman has for as long as Stallman has had it is worth at least a million or 2 dollars (unless they're, you know, chronically mentally ill or some such). Fame and prestige for example get you much higher speaking fees, and public speaking has long been Stallman's favorite thing to do.
  - foxhill 7y ago
    > I haven't seen so much hostility from the world so much as 25 years ... yeah, that’s a no from me, dog. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2612037 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2612037
    - tptacek 7y ago
      All I see there is a thread in which you proposed encrypted messages by XORing them with zeroes.
      - foxhill 7y ago
        well i guess i just remembered it for over 8 years for literally no reason then ¯\(°_o)/¯ .. ok :)
mamon 7y ago
Are his expectation really that high? What I get from it is that RMS does not own a car and wants all places he frequents (city center, supermarket) be reachable on foot or by public transport. Plus he has mild paranoia about electronic devices spying on him, but that's one of the reasons we all love him, isn't it? :)

DoreenMichele 7y ago

Low expectations and humility do not appear to be how he furthered free software as a movement in defiance of the world.

tptacek 7y ago
I haven't seen so much hostility from the world so much as 25 years of people becoming wealthy by working on free software, but then, I've only been paying attention since the mid-1990s.
- DoreenMichele 7y ago
  My remark certainly wasn't hostile towards RMS, so I'm really not clear what you mean.
  - tptacek 7y ago
    I didn't say you were. I'm responding to your remark about the work Stallman did "in defiance of the world". I rather think the opposite happened, that Stallman (like several other people) made a judgement about how the world wanted to operate, and was proved (at least for the time period we're in now) correct.
    - DoreenMichele 7y ago
      I used that phrase because his work did not get a lot of practical support (especially at first). It was quite a hard path to take. People were hardly throwing money at him and saying "You go!" or something. I generally agree with what little I understand of the principles behind his work. But "selling out" for money (and locking up code to facilitate that) was the trend he was defying and it's a vastly easier path than the one he chose.
      - tptacek 7y ago
        Again, and not to perpetuate an unproductive argument, but the opposite is probably true; it appears in a lot of cases to be easier to make money not locking up your code, which is why open source software dominates so many markets today, and is integral to virtually every commercial product.
        DoreenMichele 7y ago
        I'm not a software insider, but that's not my understanding of how that works. Free software seems to get used quite a lot to make money, but people actually working on free software seem to mostly not make (enough) money on it. It's a passion project and then it gets incorporated into things where parts are somehow locked up as a means to facilitate making money. Not trying to argue with you. I just honestly don't understand it to work exactly like that, but some of your phrasing seems ambiguous and I'm wondering if I even understood you.
        maxerickson 7y ago
        There's lots of huge companies doing Free Software. IBM bought Redhat at a valuation of $34 billion.
      - hollerith 7y ago
        >his work did not get a lot of practical support In 1990 Stallman received a MacArthur grant, which comes with $500,000. During the late 1990s, many of the founding fathers of free software were granted stock during IPOs. Here for example is documentation that Eric Raymond got stock that ended up being worth $36 million (for a couple of years until the bust in 2001): https://www.theregister.co.uk/1999/12/10/ipo_makes_va_linux_instant/ https://www.theregister.co.uk/1999/12/10/ipo_makes_va_linux_... Now Eric Raymond got that stock for accepting a position on the Dot Com's board of directors, and I can well imagine Stallman refusing all such directorships on principle, but OTOH I would be surprised if none of the founders of successful Dot Coms during that period donated generously to Stallman directly or via the FSF. In general, almost everybody with as much fame and public reputation for moral rectitude ("prestige"?) as Stallman has for as long as Stallman has had it is worth at least a million or 2 dollars (unless they're, you know, chronically mentally ill or some such). Fame and prestige for example get you much higher speaking fees, and public speaking has long been Stallman's favorite thing to do.
- foxhill 7y ago
  > I haven't seen so much hostility from the world so much as 25 years ... yeah, that’s a no from me, dog. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2612037 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2612037
  - tptacek 7y ago
    All I see there is a thread in which you proposed encrypted messages by XORing them with zeroes.
    - foxhill 7y ago
      well i guess i just remembered it for over 8 years for literally no reason then ¯\(°_o)/¯ .. ok :)

mamon 7y ago

Are his expectation really that high? What I get from it is that RMS does not own a car and wants all places he frequents (city center, supermarket) be reachable on foot or by public transport. Plus he has mild paranoia about electronic devices spying on him, but that's one of the reasons we all love him, isn't it? :)