6 ms·

If HN were to have an official mantra, surely one of the finalists would be "charge for a product based on the value delivered, not based on the cost to deliver

by JimmyL 16y ago

If HN were to have an official mantra, surely one of the finalists would be "charge for a product based on the value delivered, not based on the cost to deliver" - so why wouldn't that apply here? The publishers think that a ebook delivers ten bucks worth of value to the reader. Seeing as they sell pretty well, it seems they're right to some degree. Put another way, if the market is willing to sustain the price (and sales figures suggest it is), why not charge $9.99 for a ebook?

schammy 16y ago
Fair enough, however, $9.99 is no longer the common price point. Most new releases are $12.99 now, which many people think is too high, and the problem is the retailers can't do anything about it because of this "agency pricing". I had no problem paying $9.99 for books on my kindle, but most of them are $12.99 now and I just feel like that's too much. In some cases, buying the physical hardcover is actually cheaper than $12.99 too, and that's what REALLY pisses some people off. The physical nature of the product surely is at least $1 - $2 of the actual cost of the the book, so buying it digitally gets rid of this cost. Also, many books are destroyed if they're not sold (hence the "if you bought this book without a cover" warning in the front of many books). By moving to digital, the publishers no longer have to eat these costs. So basically, eBook pricing is complete bullshit.
- Tycho 16y ago
  But eBooks are really convenient, so customers willingly pay more for this extra value.
- JimmyL 16y ago
  How is it more bullshit than any other pricing? Does it really cost github anywhere near $7/month to allow me to set five of my repos as private? Just like private repositories are a service that brings value that people are willing to pay for, so is having an entire book in a small and portable format. Ignore the costs related to making and distributing the physical objects when it comes to pricing them; if that's accepted wisdom for start-ups, why wouldn't it be for established companies?
  - rsl7 16y ago
    It's bullshit when the ebook is more expensive than the paperback book.
    - dagw 16y ago
      If an ebook deliver more perceived value than a paperback to its target audience, why is it bullshit to charge more for it? As has been pointed out time and time again, charge based on value, not cost.
  - anto1ne 16y ago
    It's bullshit because the biggest part in the price of a paper book is for printing and distribution. and VAT too in some countries, 20% instead of 5%, but it's going to change. So the Agency pricing scheme is only changing the pocket where money goes. And keep in mind that in countries like China, the same books cost usually $3, after translating rights, printing, distribution and publishers costs. And publishers still live on this, in a country where people buy much less books. So what is fucked up is that someone is making money, and it doesn't even benefit the authors. It's more or less the same problem as in music.
    - loewenskind 16y ago
      >It's bullshit because the biggest part in the price of a paper book is for printing and distribution. Irrelevant. Pricing is based on value provided, not cost to create. >and it doesn't even benefit the authors. This is indeed an issue, but it is then up to authors to find better representation the way that athletes have so they can get a larger share in the value they create.
- gaius 16y ago
  On of the quirks of pricing is that eBooks are VATable. That's 20% right there.
- dawgr 16y ago
  I was going to buy a Kindle this week but this article is making me think twice. I thought it'd definitely be cheaper to buy books. What about PDFs? There are thousands of PDFs on the internet which you can get for free, is the quality of PDFs worse than books in kindle format? Do you have to scroll sideways or something? Or is the font smaller?
  - rmc 16y ago
    Yes, The Kindle can read PDFs. (I recently got a Kindle 3). However it's a second class reading experience. You can't change the font size (you can zoom in/out) etc. It's easy to convert a normal 'text pdf' to an ebook format suitable for Kindle (cf. http://www.technomancy.org/kindle/convert-books-to-kindle-format-on-command-line/ http://www.technomancy.org/kindle/convert-books-to-kindle-fo...). If it's a PDF of scanned images from a book, then you'll need some OCR stuff.
    - dawgr 16y ago
      Okay thanks, so I can assume that hypothetically if I were to download text PDF books from certain places, then convert it to Kindle format, I would then be able to get first class reading experience? Are you happy with your Kindle 3 overall? I'm considering whether to get the one with 3G, but I don't know how good the webkit browser is, what do you think of it?
  - bane 16y ago
    I've found that PDFs kinda of stink (definitely much better on an iPad). However, txt files, and a few other ebooks formats work wonderfully. My Kindle is stocked with tons of Project Gutenberg books (that you can even download with the experimental web browser) and have found the reading experience really quite good.
  - deleted 16y ago
    [deleted]
DennisP 16y ago
I have over a thousand books on my Amazon wishlist, and I'm adding more all the time. I try to keep my purchases below $100/month, so I buy a small percentage of books that I would like to buy, for cost reasons. If I could buy ebooks at 1/10 the price, in an open DRM-free format, I would buy ten times as many books. They don't really know what volume they would do at a radically lower cost, because they haven't tried...and the reason they haven't tried is that they're terrified of cannibalizing print sales. (Some individual authors, on the other hand, have tried cheaper prices, bypassing the publishers, and reported significantly enhanced revenue compared to a publishing contract.)
- thomas11 16y ago
  When would you read all your books if you bought ten times as many? I think that's a hard limitation of the book market - even devoted readers can only read so much.
  - DennisP 16y ago
    I don't read all of the books I get already. Some I read cover to cover, others I read portions of, use for reference, or just pick out a few key ideas. Other times I change to another topic for a while before I get to the book, and end up reading it years later. I'm not just feeding my short-term reading, I'm building a library. Also, I specified an open, non-DRM format because that way I could apply software to the problem: text summarization tools, staged memory training, and/or just copying sections out manually into summary documents.
- loewenskind 16y ago
  >If I could buy ebooks at 1/10 the price, in an open DRM-free format, I would buy ten times as many books. So if they would drop their prices to 1/10th you wouldn't spend a penny more but you'd have more books? It's obvious how this is good for you, but how is that an advantage to them? They're trying to make money, not populate the world with books. Further, you have a finite list of books you want. Even though it's growing it's not growing at the speed of light. If they let you get everything on your list for the 1/10th the price then they soon won't have anything else to sell you. Where are they going to recoup the money they lost buy letting you have 10 times the assets for the same cost?
richcollins 16y ago
You forgot to add reasonable substitutes. I suppose you could roll that into value but it seems subtly different.

by JimmyL 16y ago

schammy 16y ago

Fair enough, however, $9.99 is no longer the common price point. Most new releases are $12.99 now, which many people think is too high, and the problem is the retailers can't do anything about it because of this "agency pricing". I had no problem paying $9.99 for books on my kindle, but most of them are $12.99 now and I just feel like that's too much. In some cases, buying the physical hardcover is actually cheaper than $12.99 too, and that's what REALLY pisses some people off. The physical nature of the product surely is at least $1 - $2 of the actual cost of the the book, so buying it digitally gets rid of this cost. Also, many books are destroyed if they're not sold (hence the "if you bought this book without a cover" warning in the front of many books). By moving to digital, the publishers no longer have to eat these costs. So basically, eBook pricing is complete bullshit.

Tycho 16y ago
But eBooks are really convenient, so customers willingly pay more for this extra value.
JimmyL 16y ago
How is it more bullshit than any other pricing? Does it really cost github anywhere near $7/month to allow me to set five of my repos as private? Just like private repositories are a service that brings value that people are willing to pay for, so is having an entire book in a small and portable format. Ignore the costs related to making and distributing the physical objects when it comes to pricing them; if that's accepted wisdom for start-ups, why wouldn't it be for established companies?
- rsl7 16y ago
  It's bullshit when the ebook is more expensive than the paperback book.
  - dagw 16y ago
    If an ebook deliver more perceived value than a paperback to its target audience, why is it bullshit to charge more for it? As has been pointed out time and time again, charge based on value, not cost.
- anto1ne 16y ago
  It's bullshit because the biggest part in the price of a paper book is for printing and distribution. and VAT too in some countries, 20% instead of 5%, but it's going to change. So the Agency pricing scheme is only changing the pocket where money goes. And keep in mind that in countries like China, the same books cost usually $3, after translating rights, printing, distribution and publishers costs. And publishers still live on this, in a country where people buy much less books. So what is fucked up is that someone is making money, and it doesn't even benefit the authors. It's more or less the same problem as in music.
  - loewenskind 16y ago
    >It's bullshit because the biggest part in the price of a paper book is for printing and distribution. Irrelevant. Pricing is based on value provided, not cost to create. >and it doesn't even benefit the authors. This is indeed an issue, but it is then up to authors to find better representation the way that athletes have so they can get a larger share in the value they create.
gaius 16y ago
On of the quirks of pricing is that eBooks are VATable. That's 20% right there.
dawgr 16y ago
I was going to buy a Kindle this week but this article is making me think twice. I thought it'd definitely be cheaper to buy books. What about PDFs? There are thousands of PDFs on the internet which you can get for free, is the quality of PDFs worse than books in kindle format? Do you have to scroll sideways or something? Or is the font smaller?
- rmc 16y ago
  Yes, The Kindle can read PDFs. (I recently got a Kindle 3). However it's a second class reading experience. You can't change the font size (you can zoom in/out) etc. It's easy to convert a normal 'text pdf' to an ebook format suitable for Kindle (cf. http://www.technomancy.org/kindle/convert-books-to-kindle-format-on-command-line/ http://www.technomancy.org/kindle/convert-books-to-kindle-fo...). If it's a PDF of scanned images from a book, then you'll need some OCR stuff.
  - dawgr 16y ago
    Okay thanks, so I can assume that hypothetically if I were to download text PDF books from certain places, then convert it to Kindle format, I would then be able to get first class reading experience? Are you happy with your Kindle 3 overall? I'm considering whether to get the one with 3G, but I don't know how good the webkit browser is, what do you think of it?
- bane 16y ago
  I've found that PDFs kinda of stink (definitely much better on an iPad). However, txt files, and a few other ebooks formats work wonderfully. My Kindle is stocked with tons of Project Gutenberg books (that you can even download with the experimental web browser) and have found the reading experience really quite good.
- deleted 16y ago
  [deleted]

DennisP 16y ago

I have over a thousand books on my Amazon wishlist, and I'm adding more all the time. I try to keep my purchases below $100/month, so I buy a small percentage of books that I would like to buy, for cost reasons. If I could buy ebooks at 1/10 the price, in an open DRM-free format, I would buy ten times as many books. They don't really know what volume they would do at a radically lower cost, because they haven't tried...and the reason they haven't tried is that they're terrified of cannibalizing print sales. (Some individual authors, on the other hand, have tried cheaper prices, bypassing the publishers, and reported significantly enhanced revenue compared to a publishing contract.)

thomas11 16y ago
When would you read all your books if you bought ten times as many? I think that's a hard limitation of the book market - even devoted readers can only read so much.
- DennisP 16y ago
  I don't read all of the books I get already. Some I read cover to cover, others I read portions of, use for reference, or just pick out a few key ideas. Other times I change to another topic for a while before I get to the book, and end up reading it years later. I'm not just feeding my short-term reading, I'm building a library. Also, I specified an open, non-DRM format because that way I could apply software to the problem: text summarization tools, staged memory training, and/or just copying sections out manually into summary documents.
loewenskind 16y ago
>If I could buy ebooks at 1/10 the price, in an open DRM-free format, I would buy ten times as many books. So if they would drop their prices to 1/10th you wouldn't spend a penny more but you'd have more books? It's obvious how this is good for you, but how is that an advantage to them? They're trying to make money, not populate the world with books. Further, you have a finite list of books you want. Even though it's growing it's not growing at the speed of light. If they let you get everything on your list for the 1/10th the price then they soon won't have anything else to sell you. Where are they going to recoup the money they lost buy letting you have 10 times the assets for the same cost?

richcollins 16y ago

You forgot to add reasonable substitutes. I suppose you could roll that into value but it seems subtly different.