5 ms·

I am actively hiring for a devops. I get hundreds of resumes from sysasmins that either don't have AWS/cloud, Ansible/Automation, CI/CD lifecycle, DB manageme

I am actively hiring for a devops. I get hundreds of resumes from sysasmins that either don't have AWS/cloud, Ansible/Automation, CI/CD lifecycle, DB management or Ngnix/Apache experience. The majority are sysasdmins that did point and click setup ..

dvaun 7y ago
What types of businesses — perhaps the industries — do the majority of your applicants come from? I'm asking because, from my limited experience, it seems that many small and medium sized businesses that are NOT in the IT field are afraid of testing newer tech. The justifications I've been given for this stance are: 1. Newer tech introduces new problems, and increases the scope of working knowledge 2. Adopting new practices requires the business to attempt to hire for that skill in the future 3. Present managers, whose experience stemmed from working in a sysadmin role, do not have the working knowledge and capability to understand/learn new practices With that, do a lot of applicants seem to come with a basic/old background of just Windows (or the like) experience? It's hard to try and get any of your mentioned requirements running in these businesses. What my friends and I've encountered is a big resistance to the command-line (Powershell or Bash), learning how Linux systems are configured, or anything that doesn't come with a large support contract. If yourself or anyone on HN has tips or anecdotes on how to introduce changes — gradually and slowly AND given that it could help the business — I would LOVE to read them! My biggest goal is to reduce operating and capital costs for systems that are not accounted for contributing directly to increasing the company's revenue (at least when you don't control that calculation, anyway).
HNUser34159 7y ago
You think maybe some of those folks are looking for an opportunity to LEARN some of that tech? The "DevOps" fad is screwing over a large segment of senior level I.T professionals who are used to specializing. (Databases, Storage, OS, Security, etc.). I've also yet to see any startup that Jez Humble would actually call a DevOps shop. Now, startups are hiring generalists with 3-5 years of "hacking" experience, or have a popular project on GitHub.
- weberc2 7y ago
  A willingness to learn new tech is essential but not sufficient. Mostly it seems folks with a more traditional sysadmin background are looking to be Kubernetes sysadmins or AWS sysadmins, but we’re not looking for sysadmins, we’re looking for engineers. Learning the new tech isn’t sufficient—it’s not even about the tech—you need to be able to _do engineering_.
  - eropple 7y ago
    This is a critical point, and it's one the post to which you replied seems to miss. "System administrators" in the traditional sense--and I have hired many of them and consulted on the obsolescence of others--often and generally exhibit that strong get-it-working,-damn-the-consequences tendency that is in opposition to--well, none of us in this industry are engineers, but some of us aspire to engineering. Rigorous, systemic, and repeatable are the watchwords, and to that end those system administrators aren't being "screwed over"--there's a different skillset being prioritized.
    - HNUser34159 7y ago
      I think that is a gross mis-characterization because I see a ton of "get it done now, make it right later" bullshit among DevOps-y start ups. Again, I think there's a large talent pool available, but startups who think they'll be the next FAANG act too big for their britches and actively discriminate against older tech workers who are likely experts in several pieces of the tech stack. I routinely see these folks get passed over for younger, less experienced candidates (often for 1/2 to 3/4 the salary) who look good on paper because they wax eloquent about their pet project on GitHub, facial hair wax and kombucha. Source: I make damn good money as a "fixer", and my primary customers are 5-30 person startups. I don't "code", and never will (useful scripts, and some automation/cloud API excepted). I go in and practically beat the managers over the heads with the DevOps Handbook, and "engineers" with the NASA Systems Engineering Handbook. Most of my work is tearing out fucked k8s installs, and cutting AWS spending by 1/2 or more. (A few clients were billed based on how much I reduced their bill). Have a standing job offer with one client, however it requires Azure certification pretty much immediately. Between not really using much MS stuff, and the exam focusing mostly on the Azure CLI, it might not be worth the trouble for a steady paycheck. They were nice enough to cover a training course though, so I'm willing to see where it goes.

dvaun 7y ago

What types of businesses — perhaps the industries — do the majority of your applicants come from? I'm asking because, from my limited experience, it seems that many small and medium sized businesses that are NOT in the IT field are afraid of testing newer tech. The justifications I've been given for this stance are: 1. Newer tech introduces new problems, and increases the scope of working knowledge 2. Adopting new practices requires the business to attempt to hire for that skill in the future 3. Present managers, whose experience stemmed from working in a sysadmin role, do not have the working knowledge and capability to understand/learn new practices With that, do a lot of applicants seem to come with a basic/old background of just Windows (or the like) experience? It's hard to try and get any of your mentioned requirements running in these businesses. What my friends and I've encountered is a big resistance to the command-line (Powershell or Bash), learning how Linux systems are configured, or anything that doesn't come with a large support contract. If yourself or anyone on HN has tips or anecdotes on how to introduce changes — gradually and slowly AND given that it could help the business — I would LOVE to read them! My biggest goal is to reduce operating and capital costs for systems that are not accounted for contributing directly to increasing the company's revenue (at least when you don't control that calculation, anyway).

HNUser34159 7y ago

You think maybe some of those folks are looking for an opportunity to LEARN some of that tech? The "DevOps" fad is screwing over a large segment of senior level I.T professionals who are used to specializing. (Databases, Storage, OS, Security, etc.). I've also yet to see any startup that Jez Humble would actually call a DevOps shop. Now, startups are hiring generalists with 3-5 years of "hacking" experience, or have a popular project on GitHub.

weberc2 7y ago
A willingness to learn new tech is essential but not sufficient. Mostly it seems folks with a more traditional sysadmin background are looking to be Kubernetes sysadmins or AWS sysadmins, but we’re not looking for sysadmins, we’re looking for engineers. Learning the new tech isn’t sufficient—it’s not even about the tech—you need to be able to _do engineering_.
- eropple 7y ago
  This is a critical point, and it's one the post to which you replied seems to miss. "System administrators" in the traditional sense--and I have hired many of them and consulted on the obsolescence of others--often and generally exhibit that strong get-it-working,-damn-the-consequences tendency that is in opposition to--well, none of us in this industry are engineers, but some of us aspire to engineering. Rigorous, systemic, and repeatable are the watchwords, and to that end those system administrators aren't being "screwed over"--there's a different skillset being prioritized.
  - HNUser34159 7y ago
    I think that is a gross mis-characterization because I see a ton of "get it done now, make it right later" bullshit among DevOps-y start ups. Again, I think there's a large talent pool available, but startups who think they'll be the next FAANG act too big for their britches and actively discriminate against older tech workers who are likely experts in several pieces of the tech stack. I routinely see these folks get passed over for younger, less experienced candidates (often for 1/2 to 3/4 the salary) who look good on paper because they wax eloquent about their pet project on GitHub, facial hair wax and kombucha. Source: I make damn good money as a "fixer", and my primary customers are 5-30 person startups. I don't "code", and never will (useful scripts, and some automation/cloud API excepted). I go in and practically beat the managers over the heads with the DevOps Handbook, and "engineers" with the NASA Systems Engineering Handbook. Most of my work is tearing out fucked k8s installs, and cutting AWS spending by 1/2 or more. (A few clients were billed based on how much I reduced their bill). Have a standing job offer with one client, however it requires Azure certification pretty much immediately. Between not really using much MS stuff, and the exam focusing mostly on the Azure CLI, it might not be worth the trouble for a steady paycheck. They were nice enough to cover a training course though, so I'm willing to see where it goes.