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I have noticed that whenever one brings up concrete examples of Chinese state surveillance, oppression, or bad behavior, people come out of the woodwork with ex

I have noticed that whenever one brings up concrete examples of Chinese state surveillance, oppression, or bad behavior, people come out of the woodwork with examples of how it is “no different” than the other western countries. There seems to be a pattern of attempting false equivalence on every subject that paints China in a bad light. Is that because the West is acutely self-critical? Or is there something else going on here?

merpnderp 7y ago
This is likely because people argue false equivalence in just about everything in there lives.
scarejunba 7y ago
Well, like most of what he's saying also applies to lots of places I felt safe and free in. Like Japan has police (non-threatening) everywhere, requires you to carry your passport with you, has cameras everywhere and yet I felt safe and free and generally anxiety free there. I was taking photos with a long lens of the subway trains! In the UK, you'd be questioned for that. In the US, I don't know. Could go any way. Egypt under Hosni Mubarak near the end was notably different. There'd be heavily armed soldiers everywhere in all black. Unexplainable trucks of soldiers going everywhere. Locals wouldn't talk about certain places. I haven't been to China myself but my parents have and we've all been to Egypt and their impression was that the big cities were pretty much like a big European city or something like New York. If it gives you any faith that my opinion isn't some Chinabot, I still remember The Economist's Red Moon Rising issue as frightening. I just think they're probably very good at keeping the authoritarianism inconspicuous and therefore more terrifying. I don't deny your experience but this could be one of those Rashomon like situations where we all look at the same thing and come away with a different picture. And if it wasn't actually in your face then it'll discredit any argument about China's authoritarianism when people go there and see a prosperous happy people instead.

merpnderp 7y ago

This is likely because people argue false equivalence in just about everything in there lives.

scarejunba 7y ago

Well, like most of what he's saying also applies to lots of places I felt safe and free in. Like Japan has police (non-threatening) everywhere, requires you to carry your passport with you, has cameras everywhere and yet I felt safe and free and generally anxiety free there. I was taking photos with a long lens of the subway trains! In the UK, you'd be questioned for that. In the US, I don't know. Could go any way. Egypt under Hosni Mubarak near the end was notably different. There'd be heavily armed soldiers everywhere in all black. Unexplainable trucks of soldiers going everywhere. Locals wouldn't talk about certain places. I haven't been to China myself but my parents have and we've all been to Egypt and their impression was that the big cities were pretty much like a big European city or something like New York. If it gives you any faith that my opinion isn't some Chinabot, I still remember The Economist's Red Moon Rising issue as frightening. I just think they're probably very good at keeping the authoritarianism inconspicuous and therefore more terrifying. I don't deny your experience but this could be one of those Rashomon like situations where we all look at the same thing and come away with a different picture. And if it wasn't actually in your face then it'll discredit any argument about China's authoritarianism when people go there and see a prosperous happy people instead.