4 ms·

Yes, we need more government transparency and openess. They can see us, we should also be able to see them. In a way technology can help us. Technology can hel

by matz1 7y ago

Yes, we need more government transparency and openess. They can see us, we should also be able to see them. In a way technology can help us. Technology can help democratize survaliance.

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
chillacy 7y ago
I've heard it called "Sousveillance"
coldtea 7y ago
How about no surveillance and other such "solutions" in need of a problem?
- carapace 7y ago
  How do you ensure no one is using surveillance without a good surveillance system?
  - coldtea 7y ago
    With a good "gets thrown to jail" system if they're found to be using surveillance. If they can use surveillance and keep it forever secret and with no public artifacts from it shown, let them do it...
- SN76477 7y ago
  No surveillance without a warrant. If you do not know what you are specifically looking for you should not be looking.
  - aeternum 7y ago
    Attempting to make this illegal isn't going to work. Even regular people have this kind of power now. A modern cellphone camera with a good vantage point and some decent software has sufficient optics and resolution to track thousands of people. Check out the zoom capabilities of Huawei P30 as an example.
    - coldtea 7y ago
      >Attempting to make this illegal isn't going to work. Even regular people have this kind of power now. They might have this kind of power, but they don't have enough scale and other power (p.x. state power) to matter as much as a state or company like Google doing it... And if it's illegal they can always be busted for using it, and their private surveillance results could be automatically rejected as court evidence for anything, making them even more useless except for e.g. blackmail or something (still illegal).
- matz1 7y ago
  You essentially trying to stop technological progress, that is not realistic imo.
  - coldtea 7y ago
    Well, I believe that we should be totally able to stop technological progress, and not have autonomous "technological progress" for the sake of progress. We should have targeted progress, in the areas we want to improve and which is beneficial, and not in other areas, which is not beneficial or has negative externalities or adverse second and third order effects... The same way governments try to control e.g. nuclear proliferation. Here's an example: would you be ok with a nuclear-equivalent technology that could be made by anyone in their homes, with simple materials and be able to e.g. wipe out an entire city? Surely, it would be a technological and engineering progress. But just as surely as that, I'd rather we regressed technologically and prohibited access to the materials etc, than have that be available to every idiot, madman and bigot. Now, you might say that "it's impossible", but I don't think so. In a democracy nothing should be impossible, and political and cultural action could be made to curtail certain technologies. That's not unlike Kurwzeil and Musk, notable technologists, warning against AI singularity...
    - matz1 7y ago
      Sure, its possible but do most human want that? I doubt it. Imo, Technological progress is mostly driven by natural human desire. Personally, I want technological progess and willing to work hard to make sure it happen. That includes technology that makes survaliance better and easier. The issue with privacy is imo, instead we try to hide the information, we should fix whatever it is that make us suffer when the information become public.

by matz1 7y ago

Yes, we need more government transparency and openess. They can see us, we should also be able to see them. In a way technology can help us. Technology can help democratize survaliance.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

chillacy 7y ago

I've heard it called "Sousveillance"

coldtea 7y ago

How about no surveillance and other such "solutions" in need of a problem?

carapace 7y ago
How do you ensure no one is using surveillance without a good surveillance system?
- coldtea 7y ago
  With a good "gets thrown to jail" system if they're found to be using surveillance. If they can use surveillance and keep it forever secret and with no public artifacts from it shown, let them do it...
SN76477 7y ago
No surveillance without a warrant. If you do not know what you are specifically looking for you should not be looking.
- aeternum 7y ago
  Attempting to make this illegal isn't going to work. Even regular people have this kind of power now. A modern cellphone camera with a good vantage point and some decent software has sufficient optics and resolution to track thousands of people. Check out the zoom capabilities of Huawei P30 as an example.
  - coldtea 7y ago
    >Attempting to make this illegal isn't going to work. Even regular people have this kind of power now. They might have this kind of power, but they don't have enough scale and other power (p.x. state power) to matter as much as a state or company like Google doing it... And if it's illegal they can always be busted for using it, and their private surveillance results could be automatically rejected as court evidence for anything, making them even more useless except for e.g. blackmail or something (still illegal).
matz1 7y ago
You essentially trying to stop technological progress, that is not realistic imo.
- coldtea 7y ago
  Well, I believe that we should be totally able to stop technological progress, and not have autonomous "technological progress" for the sake of progress. We should have targeted progress, in the areas we want to improve and which is beneficial, and not in other areas, which is not beneficial or has negative externalities or adverse second and third order effects... The same way governments try to control e.g. nuclear proliferation. Here's an example: would you be ok with a nuclear-equivalent technology that could be made by anyone in their homes, with simple materials and be able to e.g. wipe out an entire city? Surely, it would be a technological and engineering progress. But just as surely as that, I'd rather we regressed technologically and prohibited access to the materials etc, than have that be available to every idiot, madman and bigot. Now, you might say that "it's impossible", but I don't think so. In a democracy nothing should be impossible, and political and cultural action could be made to curtail certain technologies. That's not unlike Kurwzeil and Musk, notable technologists, warning against AI singularity...
  - matz1 7y ago
    Sure, its possible but do most human want that? I doubt it. Imo, Technological progress is mostly driven by natural human desire. Personally, I want technological progess and willing to work hard to make sure it happen. That includes technology that makes survaliance better and easier. The issue with privacy is imo, instead we try to hide the information, we should fix whatever it is that make us suffer when the information become public.