7 ms·

What if Tunisia had a revolution, but nobody watched?

126 points by gregory80 16y ago

gregory80 16y ago
the revolts and demonstrations, and even murdering of journalists, continues to get very little attention in the US media. Despite blogs, social media and video sharing sites being part of the vehicle of dissent. I wonder if mass media feels a bit burned by the previous Iran 'twitter revolution' not leading to a greater outcome.
- johnny22 16y ago
  what is "very little attention" ? I saw it on CNN at a pizza place a few days ago. Not saying that people shouldn't talk about it more, but whenever somebody says something isn't being covered by the "main stream media" I can usually show otherwise with a quick google search. Often it is just code for: "Why aren't people caring about this issue that i care about?" Not always the case, I'm just tired of hearing people say that.
  - gregory80 16y ago
    excellent point, often that is the case. I should have followed up with more concrete evidence, but as jdp23 points out, CNN coverage was after the fact. As is my posting of this article to HN. jdp23 comment: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2110158 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2110158 It will definitely be interesting to see how long CNN and others covers the events in Tunisa moving forward. [edited for clarification]
    - johnny22 16y ago
      I can't hazard a guess at the efficiency of their fact checking procedures,but they seem to at least try to have one.
  - norswap 16y ago
    Here in Europe, it sure has been in every newspaper and every newspaper for quite some days.
    - sterling 16y ago
      Here in Paris this is a huge story. In addition, Tunisia is a major source of programming talent for French companies - if you work on the web in France you are sure to meet Tunisians on a regular basis. Tunisia is very "real" place for us.
      - rwmj 16y ago
        A former French colony too. https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/French_occupation_of_Tunisia https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/French_occupa...
      - Ygor 16y ago
        Is it just programming or other fields too? I've been to Tunisia and was surprised that everybody knows French there, and I know there's at least one university with some good students, so it is not unexpected.
  - delackner 16y ago
    A baseline comparison is all that is needed. If a story gets about as much coverage as any random fluff piece about a star tripping on the sidewalk, then no it is not really being covered.
jdp23 16y ago
Ethan had a followup a couple days later at http://www.ethanzuckerman.com/blog/2011/01/14/brocks-insights-on-the-tunisia-media-attention-disparity/ http://www.ethanzuckerman.com/blog/2011/01/14/brocks-insight... Josh Shahryar also had a great piece on Enduring America on Friday, after Ben Ali fled the country: "Today, as dismayed as I was, I got an answer to my question: What happens when the media ignores a revolution? Sometimes,the answer is: Nothing. The media can help mobilize support for victims of earthquakes like the one in Haiti. The media can also help create an atmosphere where people can feel that they should care about those overseas. But, when the media refuses to cover a revolution, it really does not carry any impact. That’s what people in Tunisia proved today by forcing their dictator to jump ship and leave the country. In a few hours, those US outlets who paid no heed will tell you how important it is that, for the first time in decades, a country in the Middle East has forced out an autocrat. Then you’ll have analysts telling you how important it is for US interests that this wave continues or maybe doesn't continue. There will be cute little graphs that Anderson Cooper can pull around on those big computer screens. Hey, it’s all going to be happening! But this will be too late. The mainstream will not be part of the global wave of online support who witnessed a ground-breakingly inspirational event that will live on in memories for years to come and that could influence views on the Middle East, democracy, and human rights for decades." More at http://www.enduringamerica.com/home/2011/1/14/tunisia-special-what-happens-when-an-uprising-is-ignored-sha.html http://www.enduringamerica.com/home/2011/1/14/tunisia-specia...
- barredo 16y ago
  Well, to be fair, Al-Jazeera played a somewhat important role (but lesser than mobile phones and self-organization) on Tunisia's movement. And we can all agree that Al Jazeera is 'media'
- confuzatron 16y ago
  "Today, as dismayed as I was, I got an answer to my question: What happens when the media ignores a revolution? " Ironic that Tunisia has a revolution, and Josh Shahryar can't help writing a piece complaining about the American media being irrelevant. Apparently the American media is the most important thing about it for this guy.
fxj 16y ago
it was big news in europe and got a lot of coverage. also because 10000 german (among french, belgium, british, etc) tourists were in tunesia at that time and had to be brought back with specially chartered flights. almost everyone of my friends knows somebody who was stuck in tunesia until today. tunesia is like florida for the europeans. you go there when you want to enjoy some sun and beach in the winter time.
- woodpanel 16y ago
  It was indeed big news in europe. but i have to add, that none of the coverage that i've seen, provided what i wanted to see in it: an urge to support the protesters. It didn't mention if these protesters were 'the good ones' at all. and i didn't see any european representative supporting them, at least none in germany. we use this country as our own florida for generations, but don't seem to care that their generations have to live in some sort of soft-lybia.
  - arethuza 16y ago
    The coverage on BBC Radio 4 this morning certainly made it sound like the outgoing regime was pretty corrupt and that the protesters had legitimate grievances. As I am about 90% asleep when listening to the news in the morning they couldn't have been very subtle about this message.
    - woodpanel 16y ago
      Seems to be that the bbc takes a better stand on this. in german tv and radio 50% of the coverage is about the tourists being brought back home. the rest tends to be focused on the turmoil and chaos, rather than the purpose of it all. Also, there ARE european officials siding with the tunesian people: http://www.europeanvoice.com/article/2011/january/eu-us-express-support-for-tunisian-people-/69943.aspx http://www.europeanvoice.com/article/2011/january/eu-us-expr... Though, in my opinion, if Catherine Ashton, EU foreign policy chief, says something, it only means that no one else want's to say it.
  - nodata 16y ago
maxklein 16y ago
I believe the issue is more than Tunisia is not a country of interest, even for people who are interested in foreign policy. Take a look at the average person who actually follows foreign news - countries like Iran, Brazil, Argentina, Egypt rank much higher than Tunisia, Botswana, Azerbaijan, Guyana. Some countries have just been in the news more, so have been noticed more and have more 'fans' or interested observers than others. Even for the educated crowd here, if I said that the government of Sao Tome had been overthrown, that would be a lot less interesting than if I said the government of Libya had been overthrown.
- smackay 16y ago
  The driving force behind the revolution, as presented by the media here in Portugal, was one of a large group of disaffected youths with little prospects for advancement. This is a recurring issue across the majority of Arab nations and throughout the region. The ramifications for other countries would appear to be rather profound.
  - izend 16y ago
    Spain and Portugal as well...
- Volscio 16y ago
  My friends in DC and in the military are following it since it's a big deal in terms of precedents for Arab/Muslim revolutions. But no one else I know is really paying attention to it.
  - jdp23 16y ago
    Agreed in general. Fans of EFF and Anonymous are also paying attention; but even a lot of online activists are overlooking it. Too bad, because there's a lot to learn ...
- eliben 16y ago
  > Some countries have just been in the news more, so have been noticed more and have more 'fans' or interested observers than others. Not to mention that tiny scrap of land about the size of New Jersey on the eastern coast of the Mediterranean, where a local conflict has been keeping the world media drooling for 60 years.
elvirs 16y ago
The news are also being intensively covered in Turkey and Russia. It is just United States media that does not cover the events for some reason. May be moves toward democracy are not interesting for the States if there is no oil involved.
- jdp23 16y ago
  George Brock had some interesting thoughts about why this didn't get a lot of coverage in the US: http://georgebrock.net/the-power-of-social-networked-media-in-tunisia/ http://georgebrock.net/the-power-of-social-networked-media-i...
gordonguthrie 16y ago
I am watching the main evening news on the BBC and it is the lead item (as it has been for days now). It was the major multi-page article in all the Sunday Papers here.
- rwmj 16y ago
  I too have been following this on the BBC News (UK) website for several days. Does it appear on the US version of the BBC website?
  - uxp 16y ago
    The American version of the BBC website, bbcamerica.com, is devoted to entertainment for the most part. Scrolling the top are plugs for The Tudors, Ramsay's Best Restaurant and Anglophenia. As far as I know, the BBC News site for us yanks is identical to the version served to you in the UK. I don't believe bbc.co.uk uses geolocation content filtering or modification. bbc.com and bbc.co.uk appear to be resolving to the same address as well. bbc.co.uk does have "Battles in Tunis as key aide held" as its top story as I write this, so it is not like Americans are blocked from seeking out information using the same sources as the rest of the world.
    - seabee 16y ago
      Only thing the BBC do is serve ads to non-UK viewers. The website is the same for everyone otherwise. BBC America is just a TV channel; that's why that website is entertainment-based.
- PostOnce 16y ago
  NPR, New York Times, etc. also covering it.
baby 16y ago
Well. I don't watch TV. But I guess my friends do. And pretty much everyone is talking about in facebook status in France.
nraynaud 16y ago
As far as I know every French newspaper made his first page about Tunisia since one or 2 weeks. http://www.liberation.fr/ http://www.liberation.fr/ http://www.lefigaro.fr/ http://www.lefigaro.fr/ http://www.lemonde.fr/ http://www.lemonde.fr/ Spain: http://www.elmundo.es/ http://www.elmundo.es/ Germany: http://www.spiegel.de/ http://www.spiegel.de/ I suppose that the US media don't focus on news that are not on the national political agenda and they tend to be more focused on the inside.
- yummyfajitas 16y ago
  It might also be locality. Tunisia is what, 300 miles from France? No matter how inwardly focused they are, you can be sure US newspapers would cover a revolution in Mexico or Guatemala. (Admittedly, CNN would wait until after the revolution had a twitter page.)
  - cabalamat 16y ago
    > It might also be locality. It is. It is also that Tunisia is a former French colony.
  - qw 16y ago
    Norway is 2500km[1] away with no noticeable Tunisian population, but the media has shown a lot of interest. but locality can't be a factor here. It is a relatively popular Tourist destination of course, so that may make the country more relevant. [1] Distance between capitols according to Wolfram Alpha
- afterburner 16y ago
  There is a sizable Tunisian population in France.
  - nraynaud 16y ago
    and Germany ?
ghkyudfe 16y ago
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hasenj 16y ago
As far as I can tell there was (and still is) continuous coverage on all major Arabic media channels.
dataminer 16y ago
The author concluded with "because real change in the world is a rare thing, and it’s a shame that people would miss the chance to watch it unfold." I really hope that real change happens in Tunisia, most of the revolutions even though successful in short term do not bring the real change, because people falsely assume that removing a single dictator will change the course of a country, however its only the end of the beginning. The hard part comes next where the society as a whole has to make a concerted effort to create independent political and economic institutions which keep check on each other. Most of the time, specially in Asian and African region, this step is forgotten and the only result revolution achieves is replacement of old dictator by a new dictator.
troymc 16y ago
I found out about the events in Tunisia through the Wikipedia homepage, which lists significant current events.
natch 16y ago
The Revolution will not be televised. It had to be said. [Edit: if you missed the cultural reference, this will bring you up to speed: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BS3QOtbW4m0 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BS3QOtbW4m0]
nkassis 16y ago
It was pretty big news here in Montreal Canada. We have a large tunisian community(they had a celebration march a few days ago downtown) so the news did cover it (french CBC did give the story a lot of time) I'd like to see how this influences the.events in Algeria.
csomar 16y ago
_When authorities confiscated his wares to punish him for selling without a license, Bouazizi set himself on fire. He died in hospital on January 4, 2011._ That's not true, Bouazizi put his degree in front of his cart, which annoyed the authorities. So they confiscated his wares. No one really here have a license for selling fruits. Edit: I'm a Tunisian (born and living here), if you have any question about the situation you can ask me.
kleiba 16y ago
Could you please rename the title of this post to "...nobody in the US watched?" - the topic is well-covered in European news.
kra 16y ago
I don't get this. The story has been in the NYT every day last week, and it's been front-page news there since the weekend, with articles on the Wikileaks cables' relevance and possible similar effects in Egypt. Was the NYT 2-3 weeks late in giving this story a focus? Were they just waiting to see if it would become relevant among the US wars and domestic political violence? Or did they get caught off guard until Al-Jazeera scooped them? Either way, it doesn't look like they egregiously sandbagged the story, they were just later to it than they could have been.

126 points by gregory80 16y ago

the revolts and demonstrations, and even murdering of journalists, continues to get very little attention in the US media. Despite blogs, social media and video sharing sites being part of the vehicle of dissent. I wonder if mass media feels a bit burned by the previous Iran 'twitter revolution' not leading to a greater outcome.

johnny22 16y ago
what is "very little attention" ? I saw it on CNN at a pizza place a few days ago. Not saying that people shouldn't talk about it more, but whenever somebody says something isn't being covered by the "main stream media" I can usually show otherwise with a quick google search. Often it is just code for: "Why aren't people caring about this issue that i care about?" Not always the case, I'm just tired of hearing people say that.
- gregory80 16y ago
  excellent point, often that is the case. I should have followed up with more concrete evidence, but as jdp23 points out, CNN coverage was after the fact. As is my posting of this article to HN. jdp23 comment: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2110158 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2110158 It will definitely be interesting to see how long CNN and others covers the events in Tunisa moving forward. [edited for clarification]
  - johnny22 16y ago
    I can't hazard a guess at the efficiency of their fact checking procedures,but they seem to at least try to have one.
- norswap 16y ago
  Here in Europe, it sure has been in every newspaper and every newspaper for quite some days.
  - sterling 16y ago
    Here in Paris this is a huge story. In addition, Tunisia is a major source of programming talent for French companies - if you work on the web in France you are sure to meet Tunisians on a regular basis. Tunisia is very "real" place for us.
    - rwmj 16y ago
      A former French colony too. https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/French_occupation_of_Tunisia https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/French_occupa...
    - Ygor 16y ago
      Is it just programming or other fields too? I've been to Tunisia and was surprised that everybody knows French there, and I know there's at least one university with some good students, so it is not unexpected.
- delackner 16y ago
  A baseline comparison is all that is needed. If a story gets about as much coverage as any random fluff piece about a star tripping on the sidewalk, then no it is not really being covered.

jdp23 16y ago

Ethan had a followup a couple days later at http://www.ethanzuckerman.com/blog/2011/01/14/brocks-insights-on-the-tunisia-media-attention-disparity/ http://www.ethanzuckerman.com/blog/2011/01/14/brocks-insight... Josh Shahryar also had a great piece on Enduring America on Friday, after Ben Ali fled the country: "Today, as dismayed as I was, I got an answer to my question: What happens when the media ignores a revolution? Sometimes,the answer is: Nothing. The media can help mobilize support for victims of earthquakes like the one in Haiti. The media can also help create an atmosphere where people can feel that they should care about those overseas. But, when the media refuses to cover a revolution, it really does not carry any impact. That’s what people in Tunisia proved today by forcing their dictator to jump ship and leave the country. In a few hours, those US outlets who paid no heed will tell you how important it is that, for the first time in decades, a country in the Middle East has forced out an autocrat. Then you’ll have analysts telling you how important it is for US interests that this wave continues or maybe doesn't continue. There will be cute little graphs that Anderson Cooper can pull around on those big computer screens. Hey, it’s all going to be happening! But this will be too late. The mainstream will not be part of the global wave of online support who witnessed a ground-breakingly inspirational event that will live on in memories for years to come and that could influence views on the Middle East, democracy, and human rights for decades." More at http://www.enduringamerica.com/home/2011/1/14/tunisia-special-what-happens-when-an-uprising-is-ignored-sha.html http://www.enduringamerica.com/home/2011/1/14/tunisia-specia...

barredo 16y ago
Well, to be fair, Al-Jazeera played a somewhat important role (but lesser than mobile phones and self-organization) on Tunisia's movement. And we can all agree that Al Jazeera is 'media'
confuzatron 16y ago
"Today, as dismayed as I was, I got an answer to my question: What happens when the media ignores a revolution? " Ironic that Tunisia has a revolution, and Josh Shahryar can't help writing a piece complaining about the American media being irrelevant. Apparently the American media is the most important thing about it for this guy.

fxj 16y ago

it was big news in europe and got a lot of coverage. also because 10000 german (among french, belgium, british, etc) tourists were in tunesia at that time and had to be brought back with specially chartered flights. almost everyone of my friends knows somebody who was stuck in tunesia until today. tunesia is like florida for the europeans. you go there when you want to enjoy some sun and beach in the winter time.

woodpanel 16y ago
It was indeed big news in europe. but i have to add, that none of the coverage that i've seen, provided what i wanted to see in it: an urge to support the protesters. It didn't mention if these protesters were 'the good ones' at all. and i didn't see any european representative supporting them, at least none in germany. we use this country as our own florida for generations, but don't seem to care that their generations have to live in some sort of soft-lybia.
- arethuza 16y ago
  The coverage on BBC Radio 4 this morning certainly made it sound like the outgoing regime was pretty corrupt and that the protesters had legitimate grievances. As I am about 90% asleep when listening to the news in the morning they couldn't have been very subtle about this message.
  - woodpanel 16y ago
    Seems to be that the bbc takes a better stand on this. in german tv and radio 50% of the coverage is about the tourists being brought back home. the rest tends to be focused on the turmoil and chaos, rather than the purpose of it all. Also, there ARE european officials siding with the tunesian people: http://www.europeanvoice.com/article/2011/january/eu-us-express-support-for-tunisian-people-/69943.aspx http://www.europeanvoice.com/article/2011/january/eu-us-expr... Though, in my opinion, if Catherine Ashton, EU foreign policy chief, says something, it only means that no one else want's to say it.
- nodata 16y ago

maxklein 16y ago

I believe the issue is more than Tunisia is not a country of interest, even for people who are interested in foreign policy. Take a look at the average person who actually follows foreign news - countries like Iran, Brazil, Argentina, Egypt rank much higher than Tunisia, Botswana, Azerbaijan, Guyana. Some countries have just been in the news more, so have been noticed more and have more 'fans' or interested observers than others. Even for the educated crowd here, if I said that the government of Sao Tome had been overthrown, that would be a lot less interesting than if I said the government of Libya had been overthrown.

smackay 16y ago
The driving force behind the revolution, as presented by the media here in Portugal, was one of a large group of disaffected youths with little prospects for advancement. This is a recurring issue across the majority of Arab nations and throughout the region. The ramifications for other countries would appear to be rather profound.
- izend 16y ago
  Spain and Portugal as well...
Volscio 16y ago
My friends in DC and in the military are following it since it's a big deal in terms of precedents for Arab/Muslim revolutions. But no one else I know is really paying attention to it.
- jdp23 16y ago
  Agreed in general. Fans of EFF and Anonymous are also paying attention; but even a lot of online activists are overlooking it. Too bad, because there's a lot to learn ...
eliben 16y ago
> Some countries have just been in the news more, so have been noticed more and have more 'fans' or interested observers than others. Not to mention that tiny scrap of land about the size of New Jersey on the eastern coast of the Mediterranean, where a local conflict has been keeping the world media drooling for 60 years.

elvirs 16y ago

The news are also being intensively covered in Turkey and Russia. It is just United States media that does not cover the events for some reason. May be moves toward democracy are not interesting for the States if there is no oil involved.

jdp23 16y ago
George Brock had some interesting thoughts about why this didn't get a lot of coverage in the US: http://georgebrock.net/the-power-of-social-networked-media-in-tunisia/ http://georgebrock.net/the-power-of-social-networked-media-i...

gordonguthrie 16y ago

I am watching the main evening news on the BBC and it is the lead item (as it has been for days now). It was the major multi-page article in all the Sunday Papers here.

rwmj 16y ago
I too have been following this on the BBC News (UK) website for several days. Does it appear on the US version of the BBC website?
- uxp 16y ago
  The American version of the BBC website, bbcamerica.com, is devoted to entertainment for the most part. Scrolling the top are plugs for The Tudors, Ramsay's Best Restaurant and Anglophenia. As far as I know, the BBC News site for us yanks is identical to the version served to you in the UK. I don't believe bbc.co.uk uses geolocation content filtering or modification. bbc.com and bbc.co.uk appear to be resolving to the same address as well. bbc.co.uk does have "Battles in Tunis as key aide held" as its top story as I write this, so it is not like Americans are blocked from seeking out information using the same sources as the rest of the world.
  - seabee 16y ago
    Only thing the BBC do is serve ads to non-UK viewers. The website is the same for everyone otherwise. BBC America is just a TV channel; that's why that website is entertainment-based.
PostOnce 16y ago
NPR, New York Times, etc. also covering it.

baby 16y ago

Well. I don't watch TV. But I guess my friends do. And pretty much everyone is talking about in facebook status in France.

nraynaud 16y ago

As far as I know every French newspaper made his first page about Tunisia since one or 2 weeks. http://www.liberation.fr/ http://www.liberation.fr/ http://www.lefigaro.fr/ http://www.lefigaro.fr/ http://www.lemonde.fr/ http://www.lemonde.fr/ Spain: http://www.elmundo.es/ http://www.elmundo.es/ Germany: http://www.spiegel.de/ http://www.spiegel.de/ I suppose that the US media don't focus on news that are not on the national political agenda and they tend to be more focused on the inside.

yummyfajitas 16y ago
It might also be locality. Tunisia is what, 300 miles from France? No matter how inwardly focused they are, you can be sure US newspapers would cover a revolution in Mexico or Guatemala. (Admittedly, CNN would wait until after the revolution had a twitter page.)
- cabalamat 16y ago
  > It might also be locality. It is. It is also that Tunisia is a former French colony.
- qw 16y ago
  Norway is 2500km[1] away with no noticeable Tunisian population, but the media has shown a lot of interest. but locality can't be a factor here. It is a relatively popular Tourist destination of course, so that may make the country more relevant. [1] Distance between capitols according to Wolfram Alpha
afterburner 16y ago
There is a sizable Tunisian population in France.
- nraynaud 16y ago
  and Germany ?

ghkyudfe 16y ago

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hasenj 16y ago

As far as I can tell there was (and still is) continuous coverage on all major Arabic media channels.

dataminer 16y ago

The author concluded with "because real change in the world is a rare thing, and it’s a shame that people would miss the chance to watch it unfold." I really hope that real change happens in Tunisia, most of the revolutions even though successful in short term do not bring the real change, because people falsely assume that removing a single dictator will change the course of a country, however its only the end of the beginning. The hard part comes next where the society as a whole has to make a concerted effort to create independent political and economic institutions which keep check on each other. Most of the time, specially in Asian and African region, this step is forgotten and the only result revolution achieves is replacement of old dictator by a new dictator.

troymc 16y ago

I found out about the events in Tunisia through the Wikipedia homepage, which lists significant current events.

natch 16y ago

The Revolution will not be televised. It had to be said. [Edit: if you missed the cultural reference, this will bring you up to speed: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BS3QOtbW4m0 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BS3QOtbW4m0]

nkassis 16y ago

It was pretty big news here in Montreal Canada. We have a large tunisian community(they had a celebration march a few days ago downtown) so the news did cover it (french CBC did give the story a lot of time) I'd like to see how this influences the.events in Algeria.

csomar 16y ago

_When authorities confiscated his wares to punish him for selling without a license, Bouazizi set himself on fire. He died in hospital on January 4, 2011._ That's not true, Bouazizi put his degree in front of his cart, which annoyed the authorities. So they confiscated his wares. No one really here have a license for selling fruits. Edit: I'm a Tunisian (born and living here), if you have any question about the situation you can ask me.

kleiba 16y ago

Could you please rename the title of this post to "...nobody in the US watched?" - the topic is well-covered in European news.

kra 16y ago

I don't get this. The story has been in the NYT every day last week, and it's been front-page news there since the weekend, with articles on the Wikileaks cables' relevance and possible similar effects in Egypt. Was the NYT 2-3 weeks late in giving this story a focus? Were they just waiting to see if it would become relevant among the US wars and domestic political violence? Or did they get caught off guard until Al-Jazeera scooped them? Either way, it doesn't look like they egregiously sandbagged the story, they were just later to it than they could have been.