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"little" is relative. An employee could be a single student living alone or a parent of 5. It's really not up to the employer or society to make sure an emplo

"little" is relative. An employee could be a single student living alone or a parent of 5. It's really not up to the employer or society to make sure an employee is financially responsible. Just giving people an instant raise is a band-aid and will only last a few years before inflation catches up. Education is the answer. Anyone not making enough to survive should focus on learning new skills and getting a better job. We also need to teach personal responsibility. Some people are in bad situations and are responsible. But many never learned it in the first place and have multiple kids with no way to support them or just continue to make poor financial and life decisions that lead them to a situation where they have a job and are still living paycheck-to-paycheck. No government action (unless it means total control over a person's life and decisions) or pay boost will ever fix this because the amount of money needed will just continue to increase over time.

DangitBobby 7y ago
It's pretty difficult to start making good decisions and dedicate all of your free time to educating yourself when you've busted your ass all day, you're tired, and you still have shit to do. This bootstraps mentality just ignores reality. I personally always really want to learn new programming languages and start new projects! But after working all day I just can't bring myself to do it and all the other things I need to do most of the time. Sometimes I can do a couple hours or devote a Saturday, but it doesn't feel like much. And I love programming, and it's one of the easiest, cheapest things to extend your knowledge in. So how is someone who works bent over 40 hours a week going to have the physical and mental energy and the money to learn to be a welder on his own?
- planetzero 7y ago
  "It's pretty difficult to start making good decisions and dedicate all of your free time to educating yourself when you've busted your ass all day, you're tired, and you still have shit to do. This bootstraps mentality just ignores reality." I'm thinking about the big picture: preventing someone from getting in that situation in the first place, rather than trying to fix every individual case that's happening now. The bootstrap reality doesn't ignore reality. You can always find some spare time to learn something new. "So how is someone who works bent over 40 hours a week going to have the physical and mental energy and the money to learn to be a welder on his own?" We all have free time, even if you are busting your ass. Most people don't work on the weekends. It takes sacrificing your free time and forcing yourself to stay motivated, to succeed.
mrgarborg 7y ago
How is it not up to society to make sure that the people in it who are working to the best of their ability are getting a share of total economic output that makes it possible and bearable for them to live in said society? If you are already living in a cheap area, in a studio apartment or with roommates, if you are not splurging on luxury items, you are working 40-70 hour weeks, and what is left over after you've paid rent, utilities and insurance is < $100/month, it is not an issue about financial responsibility anymore. It is an issue of those workers not getting a fair stake in society's economic output. Education in and of itself is not the answer, when reality is that there are going to be people at the bottom rungs as long as there are fewer decent-paying jobs than there are people who need them. At the local level it's a zero-sum game: If I outcompete someone and get a job, someone else will not. The problem is not solved, the burden has just been put on someone else's shoulders.

DangitBobby 7y ago

It's pretty difficult to start making good decisions and dedicate all of your free time to educating yourself when you've busted your ass all day, you're tired, and you still have shit to do. This bootstraps mentality just ignores reality. I personally always really want to learn new programming languages and start new projects! But after working all day I just can't bring myself to do it and all the other things I need to do most of the time. Sometimes I can do a couple hours or devote a Saturday, but it doesn't feel like much. And I love programming, and it's one of the easiest, cheapest things to extend your knowledge in. So how is someone who works bent over 40 hours a week going to have the physical and mental energy and the money to learn to be a welder on his own?

planetzero 7y ago
"It's pretty difficult to start making good decisions and dedicate all of your free time to educating yourself when you've busted your ass all day, you're tired, and you still have shit to do. This bootstraps mentality just ignores reality." I'm thinking about the big picture: preventing someone from getting in that situation in the first place, rather than trying to fix every individual case that's happening now. The bootstrap reality doesn't ignore reality. You can always find some spare time to learn something new. "So how is someone who works bent over 40 hours a week going to have the physical and mental energy and the money to learn to be a welder on his own?" We all have free time, even if you are busting your ass. Most people don't work on the weekends. It takes sacrificing your free time and forcing yourself to stay motivated, to succeed.

mrgarborg 7y ago

How is it not up to society to make sure that the people in it who are working to the best of their ability are getting a share of total economic output that makes it possible and bearable for them to live in said society? If you are already living in a cheap area, in a studio apartment or with roommates, if you are not splurging on luxury items, you are working 40-70 hour weeks, and what is left over after you've paid rent, utilities and insurance is < $100/month, it is not an issue about financial responsibility anymore. It is an issue of those workers not getting a fair stake in society's economic output. Education in and of itself is not the answer, when reality is that there are going to be people at the bottom rungs as long as there are fewer decent-paying jobs than there are people who need them. At the local level it's a zero-sum game: If I outcompete someone and get a job, someone else will not. The problem is not solved, the burden has just been put on someone else's shoulders.