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China never obeyed the rules, so the rest of the world has a choice: continue to play by the old rules at a disadvantage to a cheating China, accept the new rul

China never obeyed the rules, so the rest of the world has a choice: continue to play by the old rules at a disadvantage to a cheating China, accept the new rules China has been playing by, or isolate China until they start playing by the old rules.

rat9988 7y ago
Which rules didn't china obey?
- leereeves 7y ago
  Broadly speaking (for a detailed list see the US Trade Representative's report[1]) they failed to allow access to their markets or respect the rights of foreign companies. They've shown that a nationalist nation can exploit the globalist system to its own profit, raising doubts about globalism itself and leading to the resurgence of nationalism. 1: https://ustr.gov/sites/default/files/2018-USTR-Report-to-Congress-on-China%27s-WTO-Compliance.pdf https://ustr.gov/sites/default/files/2018-USTR-Report-to-Con...
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
- RavlaAlvar 7y ago
  Promise they made when joining WTO
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
dirtyid 7y ago
You should look up WTO statistics sometimes. Who has substantially more complaints from the global trade community [1]? Who imposes the highest number of protectionism policies [2]? Hint: it's not China. There's no reason to believe USTR reporting, or much government reporting when it comes to geopolitics to be unbiased. Especially under this administration. During a tradewar no less. This isn't about obeying the rules. It's about the reigning cheater stacking the deck against an upcoming cheater while pretending their own hands are clean. China's ascension to WTO was inevitable despite US being one of the last hold outs [3]. An emerging great power and the largest exporter responsible for driving substantial global growth should get a say in the rules. That's just common sense. China maybe revisionist but it also has't been in a large shooting war in 40 years, that's a good direction to revise towards. [1] https://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user3303/imageroot/2016/09/28/20161001_trade.jpg https://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user330... [2] https://www.cato.org/sites/cato.org/files/styles/pubs_2x/public/wp-content/uploads/usa_protectionism.png https://www.cato.org/sites/cato.org/files/styles/pubs_2x/pub... [3] https://thebulwark.com/a-failure-to-adjust/ https://thebulwark.com/a-failure-to-adjust/
- primroot 7y ago
  When one is powerful enough, rules are an advantage. The powerful can now enjoy the well protected benefit of breaking the rules. That's how we can more or less predict who breaks the rules.
- leereeves 7y ago
  Number of complaints is irrelevant without considering the magnitude of the infractions. Does the US require foreign firms to have local partners? Routinely ignore foreign copyrights? Completely block all foreign information from reaching its people?
  - simion314 7y ago
    >Completely block all foreign information from reaching its people? There are many studies that shows that racism is still present in US, in police,justice, work place Now you give me the excuse for the racism then think maybe China may have their own excuses that you will not understand, then maybe think about school shootings tell me the excuses for why those happen ..then think maybe China has some excuses too for other shit. IMO there are problems that don't have a simple solution, tell em the simple solution for the gun violence or racism in US. Is the same for China or other country, there is a large number of people in that country, they have a different culture, they have different values and you can't change them over night and some US values should probably be not exported.
    - leereeves 7y ago
      That's pretty far off topic, but China is at least as racist as the US, arguably far more so. At least in the US, victims are allowed to publicly protest and seek redress in the courts. Not so in China.
      - simion314 7y ago
        Bringing the freedom to access all the internet and suggesting the the US actions are because Trump cares about that is ... , so let's agree that Trump or US don't started this because of human rights (see Saudi Arabia money accepted with open arms) . It is an political/economic issue and even if you as a person care about the human rights if you claim this is about that you are naive. My points about racism is not to try to put an equality between the 2 countries, I want to show that there are issues that have no simple solution, you make a lay that from tomorrow all races are equal and it takes a few generations for the racism to completely disappear. As similar you can't have China embrace all Western values over night, it is not possible. it takes generations so you need to be patient. I did not see your simple solutions for the US or China issues, do you have them? If there are no such solutions what do you want? An invasion or tariffs to bring down the firewall and magically fix the racism in China (while at the same time you have a racist leader)
dis-sys 7y ago
> China never obeyed the rules did China had a say when the old rules were made?

rat9988 7y ago

Which rules didn't china obey?

leereeves 7y ago
Broadly speaking (for a detailed list see the US Trade Representative's report[1]) they failed to allow access to their markets or respect the rights of foreign companies. They've shown that a nationalist nation can exploit the globalist system to its own profit, raising doubts about globalism itself and leading to the resurgence of nationalism. 1: https://ustr.gov/sites/default/files/2018-USTR-Report-to-Congress-on-China%27s-WTO-Compliance.pdf https://ustr.gov/sites/default/files/2018-USTR-Report-to-Con...
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
RavlaAlvar 7y ago
Promise they made when joining WTO
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]

dirtyid 7y ago

You should look up WTO statistics sometimes. Who has substantially more complaints from the global trade community [1]? Who imposes the highest number of protectionism policies [2]? Hint: it's not China. There's no reason to believe USTR reporting, or much government reporting when it comes to geopolitics to be unbiased. Especially under this administration. During a tradewar no less. This isn't about obeying the rules. It's about the reigning cheater stacking the deck against an upcoming cheater while pretending their own hands are clean. China's ascension to WTO was inevitable despite US being one of the last hold outs [3]. An emerging great power and the largest exporter responsible for driving substantial global growth should get a say in the rules. That's just common sense. China maybe revisionist but it also has't been in a large shooting war in 40 years, that's a good direction to revise towards. [1] https://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user3303/imageroot/2016/09/28/20161001_trade.jpg https://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user330... [2] https://www.cato.org/sites/cato.org/files/styles/pubs_2x/public/wp-content/uploads/usa_protectionism.png https://www.cato.org/sites/cato.org/files/styles/pubs_2x/pub... [3] https://thebulwark.com/a-failure-to-adjust/ https://thebulwark.com/a-failure-to-adjust/

primroot 7y ago
When one is powerful enough, rules are an advantage. The powerful can now enjoy the well protected benefit of breaking the rules. That's how we can more or less predict who breaks the rules.
leereeves 7y ago
Number of complaints is irrelevant without considering the magnitude of the infractions. Does the US require foreign firms to have local partners? Routinely ignore foreign copyrights? Completely block all foreign information from reaching its people?
- simion314 7y ago
  >Completely block all foreign information from reaching its people? There are many studies that shows that racism is still present in US, in police,justice, work place Now you give me the excuse for the racism then think maybe China may have their own excuses that you will not understand, then maybe think about school shootings tell me the excuses for why those happen ..then think maybe China has some excuses too for other shit. IMO there are problems that don't have a simple solution, tell em the simple solution for the gun violence or racism in US. Is the same for China or other country, there is a large number of people in that country, they have a different culture, they have different values and you can't change them over night and some US values should probably be not exported.
  - leereeves 7y ago
    That's pretty far off topic, but China is at least as racist as the US, arguably far more so. At least in the US, victims are allowed to publicly protest and seek redress in the courts. Not so in China.
    - simion314 7y ago
      Bringing the freedom to access all the internet and suggesting the the US actions are because Trump cares about that is ... , so let's agree that Trump or US don't started this because of human rights (see Saudi Arabia money accepted with open arms) . It is an political/economic issue and even if you as a person care about the human rights if you claim this is about that you are naive. My points about racism is not to try to put an equality between the 2 countries, I want to show that there are issues that have no simple solution, you make a lay that from tomorrow all races are equal and it takes a few generations for the racism to completely disappear. As similar you can't have China embrace all Western values over night, it is not possible. it takes generations so you need to be patient. I did not see your simple solutions for the US or China issues, do you have them? If there are no such solutions what do you want? An invasion or tariffs to bring down the firewall and magically fix the racism in China (while at the same time you have a racist leader)

dis-sys 7y ago

> China never obeyed the rules did China had a say when the old rules were made?