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This does not strike me as ethical disclosure. It would, as the author himself describes it, take a redesign of every craft, before making this research public

by elif 7y ago

This does not strike me as ethical disclosure. It would, as the author himself describes it, take a redesign of every craft, before making this research public would be safe. He put a smiley face by the suggestion to use a drone transmitter FFS.

raverbashing 7y ago
Well it's not "Ethical disclosure" but it's not like how ILS works is a big mystery or that pilots blindingly follow ILS with no other backups or guidance systems.
- fyfy18 7y ago
  I'm interested to know if the test pilot in their simulator knew this was going to happen or not. I'm thinking if they knew the risk (which this disclosure provides) they may have been more aware and have seen there was a problem. I can't imagine a pilot not being able to spot being off course, even by a small amount, given pilots are able to land large aircraft by visual aids only (however commercial pilots don't do it often).
  - scoopertrooper 7y ago
    It could be a severe problem in low visibility conditions.
  - t0mas88 7y ago
    We land visually all the time. Especially in the US it is super common to be cleared for a visual approach, because it increases the runway capacity (can fly closer together if you can see the plane ahead and follow them). You would have the ILS (or GPS based approach) as a backup on your screens to verify. If what you see out the window does not match the systems, you stop the approach, climb, take some time to "debug" and then try again.
jrockway 7y ago
This attack is obvious to anyone that knows about ILS and radio. The article is a nice introduction if you've never heard about ILS... but it's not a difficult attack. If someone wants to do this, they would have done it by now. I think the defense against this attack is noticing that the needle isn't moving according to any control inputs. If you're on course and the needle suddenly deflects (as opposed to moving gradually), that's something to think about. If you're off course and you fly the airplane towards the needle and it doesn't move, you're going to think twice. Presumably this realization would occur before descending too low, so it's not a major problem. Ultimately, though, if someone is jamming the ILS and it is really a zero-visibility situation... you will have to divert to another airport. Flight planning requires that fuel for that be available... so it's somewhat unlikely that someone who reads HN and gets an SDR on eBay is going to kill a lot of people this way.

by elif 7y ago

raverbashing 7y ago

Well it's not "Ethical disclosure" but it's not like how ILS works is a big mystery or that pilots blindingly follow ILS with no other backups or guidance systems.

fyfy18 7y ago
I'm interested to know if the test pilot in their simulator knew this was going to happen or not. I'm thinking if they knew the risk (which this disclosure provides) they may have been more aware and have seen there was a problem. I can't imagine a pilot not being able to spot being off course, even by a small amount, given pilots are able to land large aircraft by visual aids only (however commercial pilots don't do it often).
- scoopertrooper 7y ago
  It could be a severe problem in low visibility conditions.
- t0mas88 7y ago
  We land visually all the time. Especially in the US it is super common to be cleared for a visual approach, because it increases the runway capacity (can fly closer together if you can see the plane ahead and follow them). You would have the ILS (or GPS based approach) as a backup on your screens to verify. If what you see out the window does not match the systems, you stop the approach, climb, take some time to "debug" and then try again.

jrockway 7y ago

This attack is obvious to anyone that knows about ILS and radio. The article is a nice introduction if you've never heard about ILS... but it's not a difficult attack. If someone wants to do this, they would have done it by now. I think the defense against this attack is noticing that the needle isn't moving according to any control inputs. If you're on course and the needle suddenly deflects (as opposed to moving gradually), that's something to think about. If you're off course and you fly the airplane towards the needle and it doesn't move, you're going to think twice. Presumably this realization would occur before descending too low, so it's not a major problem. Ultimately, though, if someone is jamming the ILS and it is really a zero-visibility situation... you will have to divert to another airport. Flight planning requires that fuel for that be available... so it's somewhat unlikely that someone who reads HN and gets an SDR on eBay is going to kill a lot of people this way.