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I think you're misreading the aversion to making money. Tech entrepreneurs in SV have been trained for years to avoid revenue, profit, etc at all costs. The re

I think you're misreading the aversion to making money. Tech entrepreneurs in SV have been trained for years to avoid revenue, profit, etc at all costs. The reason? Because as soon as you have profit, the conversation and metrics at fund-raising time are entirely different, and rather than lala land they will be rooted in a reality that no one wants to be in. I've seen many founders, even some with decent revenue and growth, actively steering away from that to avoid valuation based on traditional metrics.

inimino 7y ago
You're both right. The aversion to showing positive numbers (because a negative number could become anything!!) is real, and so is the vague uneasiness and deep unawareness of how capitalism works among people working within a system it created.
- roenxi 7y ago
  The capitalists are in a very awkward spot after 2008. A motivated anti-capitalist can quite plausibly point out that the system as it stands after the financial crisis is more about protecting the rich with free bail outs and rules changes than securing material prosperity by keeping competent people in charge of resources. Defending capitalism will start being a little like defending communism - a great idea in theory; where is the evidence that it can be implemented without succumbing to corruption? It'll never be as bad because it doesn't come with the death toll, but people don't seem to take that part of the argument seriously. I'm among the most hardened capitalists I've seen on HN but I really don't see the credible counter-argument to the divergence of wages and productivity combined with spiralling asset price inflation. Something needs to be done to make it easier for people who work hard but don't like risk to tap into the rewards of capitalism. I'm not sure what physical metric to turn to to show poor people are holding steady, let alone seeing an improved quality of life.
  - koonsolo 7y ago
    Like most things, it's not a matter of extremes, it's a matter of balance.
    - rapind 7y ago
      Agreed, but that seems to be a big problem with capitalism. It's rather difficult to reign in. The class gap and wage disparity it's created over time becomes so large it starts to look pretty ridiculous and hard to ignore, so there's naturally going to be lash-back. No doubt all systems have issues, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't be critical of capitalism and gasp maybe try to improve it... without being labeled a "Communist" (in response to saas_sam's dismissive comment). IMO that label's starting to lose some of it's McCarthyism weight anyways... P.S. It's not just the Bay Area questioning ball's out capitalism.
  - elwell 7y ago
    > [capitalism] doesn't come with the death toll Citation needed
  - ken 7y ago
    > It'll never be as bad because it doesn't come with the death toll I believe that modern capitalism is all about hiding the true costs of everything, from bailouts to subsidies to advertising to "freemium" to engineered addiction. The classic Invisible Hand is dead. It's now just other people manipulating the system to make it seem like nothing has changed. I've read about how much lead is in the public water supply, how almost no cars can actually pass the emissions tests they claim to, how racist the death penalty is, and the opioid epidemic. I don't agree that there's no death toll to capitalism. We've just done an impressive job hiding it, and distancing it from the people and processes that create it. > Something needs to be done to make it easier for people who work hard but don't like risk to tap into the rewards of capitalism. One traditional answer has been "unions", and they're starting to get some traction once again.

inimino 7y ago

You're both right. The aversion to showing positive numbers (because a negative number could become anything!!) is real, and so is the vague uneasiness and deep unawareness of how capitalism works among people working within a system it created.

roenxi 7y ago
The capitalists are in a very awkward spot after 2008. A motivated anti-capitalist can quite plausibly point out that the system as it stands after the financial crisis is more about protecting the rich with free bail outs and rules changes than securing material prosperity by keeping competent people in charge of resources. Defending capitalism will start being a little like defending communism - a great idea in theory; where is the evidence that it can be implemented without succumbing to corruption? It'll never be as bad because it doesn't come with the death toll, but people don't seem to take that part of the argument seriously. I'm among the most hardened capitalists I've seen on HN but I really don't see the credible counter-argument to the divergence of wages and productivity combined with spiralling asset price inflation. Something needs to be done to make it easier for people who work hard but don't like risk to tap into the rewards of capitalism. I'm not sure what physical metric to turn to to show poor people are holding steady, let alone seeing an improved quality of life.
- koonsolo 7y ago
  Like most things, it's not a matter of extremes, it's a matter of balance.
  - rapind 7y ago
    Agreed, but that seems to be a big problem with capitalism. It's rather difficult to reign in. The class gap and wage disparity it's created over time becomes so large it starts to look pretty ridiculous and hard to ignore, so there's naturally going to be lash-back. No doubt all systems have issues, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't be critical of capitalism and gasp maybe try to improve it... without being labeled a "Communist" (in response to saas_sam's dismissive comment). IMO that label's starting to lose some of it's McCarthyism weight anyways... P.S. It's not just the Bay Area questioning ball's out capitalism.
- elwell 7y ago
  > [capitalism] doesn't come with the death toll Citation needed
- ken 7y ago
  > It'll never be as bad because it doesn't come with the death toll I believe that modern capitalism is all about hiding the true costs of everything, from bailouts to subsidies to advertising to "freemium" to engineered addiction. The classic Invisible Hand is dead. It's now just other people manipulating the system to make it seem like nothing has changed. I've read about how much lead is in the public water supply, how almost no cars can actually pass the emissions tests they claim to, how racist the death penalty is, and the opioid epidemic. I don't agree that there's no death toll to capitalism. We've just done an impressive job hiding it, and distancing it from the people and processes that create it. > Something needs to be done to make it easier for people who work hard but don't like risk to tap into the rewards of capitalism. One traditional answer has been "unions", and they're starting to get some traction once again.