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Apple specifically uses the words “secure by design” on their website. That’s a lie.

by KibbutzDalia 7y ago

alphabettsy 7y ago
Do you have any proof they designed it to be insecure?
- mastazi 7y ago
  Parent is saying that X is not true and your reply is “do you have proof that Y is true”?
  - close04 7y ago
    No, parent just confuses "design" with "implementation", and asserts that "secure by design" (even if taken as more than a marketing slogan) implies 0 bugs. The logic is flawed, the conclusion is wrong, and the presentation is needlessly aggressive. Their comment history just confirms this.
    - mastazi 7y ago
      Clearly parent is not suggesting that Apple designs are intentionally insecure. Your response is as much needlessly aggressive as parent’s comment.
umvi 7y ago
I remember Apple's marketing in 2005: "I'm a Mac." "And I'm a PC. Achoo!" "What's wrong PC?" "I have a cold." "Huh, too bad. Macs don't get viruses." "You never have any security vulnerabilities that get exploited?" "Nope. Macs just work." The End
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- panpanna 7y ago
  There are some Chromebook ads with a similar message. (TBH, Chromebooks _are_ the most secure computers normal people can buy today. But ads like these cannot be recalled if shit hits the fan).
  - GordonS 7y ago
    Those Chromebook ads annoy me. They say something like "the laptop with built-in antivirus", in such a way as to imply that's somehow unique - it isn't.
    - panpanna 7y ago
      There is no antivirus in Chromebooks.
jchw 7y ago
I'm not sure what point you're making; secure designs do not equal no bugs. And even though this exploit is basically at the lowest level possible, it still is, on its own, not sufficient for a persistent jailbreak, apparently, which to me is pretty impressive from a defense-in-depth standpoint. If you are waiting for devices completely free of any security bugs in the software and hardware, well, I hope you plan on living exceptionally long.
- close04 7y ago
  To add to that, we're also talking about an unusually long time for any system to stay unhacked. 9 years since Geohot's last bootrom exploit. And the user's data is still safe on any phone with the Secure Enclave and Touch ID (last 6 years) even when this exploit is used. At least until a better exploit is found. I'd say that this qualifies it as "secure by design" for anybody who understands what this is about.
johnisgood 7y ago
Can Apple be REALLY secure, and/or refuse to hand over information to the Government? Would not the Government go after them?

Apple specifically uses the words “secure by design” on their website. That’s a lie.

alphabettsy 7y ago

Do you have any proof they designed it to be insecure?

mastazi 7y ago
Parent is saying that X is not true and your reply is “do you have proof that Y is true”?
- close04 7y ago
  No, parent just confuses "design" with "implementation", and asserts that "secure by design" (even if taken as more than a marketing slogan) implies 0 bugs. The logic is flawed, the conclusion is wrong, and the presentation is needlessly aggressive. Their comment history just confirms this.
  - mastazi 7y ago
    Clearly parent is not suggesting that Apple designs are intentionally insecure. Your response is as much needlessly aggressive as parent’s comment.

umvi 7y ago

I remember Apple's marketing in 2005: "I'm a Mac." "And I'm a PC. Achoo!" "What's wrong PC?" "I have a cold." "Huh, too bad. Macs don't get viruses." "You never have any security vulnerabilities that get exploited?" "Nope. Macs just work." The End

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
panpanna 7y ago
There are some Chromebook ads with a similar message. (TBH, Chromebooks _are_ the most secure computers normal people can buy today. But ads like these cannot be recalled if shit hits the fan).
- GordonS 7y ago
  Those Chromebook ads annoy me. They say something like "the laptop with built-in antivirus", in such a way as to imply that's somehow unique - it isn't.
  - panpanna 7y ago
    There is no antivirus in Chromebooks.

jchw 7y ago

I'm not sure what point you're making; secure designs do not equal no bugs. And even though this exploit is basically at the lowest level possible, it still is, on its own, not sufficient for a persistent jailbreak, apparently, which to me is pretty impressive from a defense-in-depth standpoint. If you are waiting for devices completely free of any security bugs in the software and hardware, well, I hope you plan on living exceptionally long.

close04 7y ago
To add to that, we're also talking about an unusually long time for any system to stay unhacked. 9 years since Geohot's last bootrom exploit. And the user's data is still safe on any phone with the Secure Enclave and Touch ID (last 6 years) even when this exploit is used. At least until a better exploit is found. I'd say that this qualifies it as "secure by design" for anybody who understands what this is about.

johnisgood 7y ago

Can Apple be REALLY secure, and/or refuse to hand over information to the Government? Would not the Government go after them?