4 ms·

Pope urges Silicon Valley to avoid slide toward new “barbarism”

35 points by lnguyen 7y ago

drusepth 7y ago
I'll save you a click: the "barbarism" in the clickbait title is incorrect usages of "technological advances such as artificial intelligence where the law of the strongest prevails over the common good" (article's paraphrasing, not Pope's words).
- anon9001 7y ago
  Thanks, I owe you a click ;)
- jhanschoo 7y ago
  I don't think it's paraphrasing since those are quoted. Literally, in the lead paragraph, > Pope Francis urged Silicon Valley giants on Friday to make sure technological advances such as artificial intelligence do not lead to a new “form of barbarism” where the law of the strongest prevails over the common good. Unfortunately the minutes are unavailable afaict.
  - drusepth 7y ago
    Thanks for clarifying. I was just specifying my quote above was from the article text, not a direct quote from the Pope. FWIW, the actual quote from the Pope follows: >"If mankind’s so-called technological progress were to become an enemy of the common good, this would lead to an unfortunate regression to a form of barbarism dictated by the law of the strongest"
gen3 7y ago
I give the Pope credit on trying to keep up with tech. I clicked expecting to find something completely out of touch or off basis, and was pleasantly surprised. The more people talking about the effects of filter bubbles and the effects of our currently internet connected lives the better. I hope this opens a wider discussion with people who have less of a tech background, and encourages them to become more aware of the effects it has.
arduanika 7y ago
stick to the old barbarism. worst possible outcome is you'll be shuffled to a different diocese
mattigames 7y ago
Of all people that could talk about the matter it had to be the one that protects and encovers pedophiles, that a few centuries ago burned homosexuals and atheists alive, and they didn't stop because they realized it was wrong they only stopped because they lost political power after too many conflicts, one of the remaining institutions that keeps alive one of the biggest pilars of human stupidity which is believing in things just because, with arguments just as strongh as kids have arguments for Santa Claus and we are supposed to take them seriously? Listening to Tom Cruise as the head of Scientology would make as much sense.
- diegoholiveira 7y ago
  > one of the remaining institutions that keeps alive one of the biggest pilars of human stupidity Every single thing that you value as a higher moral standing came from that institution.
  - redact207 7y ago
    Since most other cultures in the world figured out the whole don't murder and rape thing, I wouldn't say the Catholic church is the common denominator.
    - esyir 7y ago
      I... Wouldn't quite jump to that.
  - mattigames 7y ago
    The opposite, I have read the Bible and it clearly supports slavery, stoning homosexuals and insolent children and many other things that are the opposite of a good civilization
    - diegoholiveira 7y ago
      That's a common mistake: read the bible. First you need to be catholic, only then you can read the bible without do the same mistake that our protestant brothers do. I do recommend this book: https://www.amazon.com/Catholic-Church-Built-Western-Civilization-ebook/dp/B00C0JE80W/ref=tmm_kin_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=&sr= https://www.amazon.com/Catholic-Church-Built-Western-Civiliz...
wideasleep1 7y ago
I suppose Pope Francis hasn't been on Twitter recently..too little too late.
- kylek 7y ago
  Should take a hint from @DalaiLama
ludamad 7y ago
There's a lot of talk here that is about the Catholic Church, but I appreciate this just as a statement from a highly influential figure that is not off base. There's a ring of truth that merciless optimization applied to human perception objectives is a dangerous area
pg_is_a_butt 7y ago
Hey pope... stop covering up for pedophiles.
presidentscroob 7y ago
Community (solidarity, cooperation, concern for others and knowing one's neighbors) is in steep decline in most of the US for many reasons, and especially in Silicon Valley because the vast majority of its denizens aren't settling permanently but are just in town temporarily to earn an income, so they care less about their surroundings or anyone else but themselves. Furthermore, higher income leads people to care less about others. (UC Berkeley Monopoly experiments) Possible solutions: - There ought to be a modern replacement for churches (the Atheist unchurches, multi-denominational churches), which were the focal points of communities for centuries. - Civic involvement in local law-making and local concerns. - Putting screens away to prioritize human interaction. - Revive the art of small-talk. - Less polarized/political interactions, seeking understanding of others' points of view (you can't persuade true believers of anything new if they're already in violent agreement). - Take the lead to create new leagues for group activities: bowling, skiing/snowboarding, ultimate frisbee, etc.
- traderjane 7y ago
  In order for people to be in a town permanently the town must provide sufficient and affordable living opportunities for all its citizens. The town must also have a robust vision for young professionals, family life, and senior care, otherwise it's a town which cannot handle the full path of life.
jhanschoo 7y ago
My two cents: > He warned of the dangers of the use of artificial intelligence “to circulate tendentious opinions and false data that could poison public debates and even manipulate the opinions of millions of people, to the point of endangering the very institutions that guarantee peaceful civil coexistence”. The current relation between AI and opinion manipulation is actually more nuanced than what I think the Pope perceives. On the one hand, large companies use algorithms (some falling under AI) to shape conversations on their platform, and do so with intentions that cannot easily be called immoral. On the other hand, the primary purveyors of manipulative content that weaken civil society exploit the algorithms in ways their design did not anticipate or intend. Example: FB's algorithm for surfacing content is not clearly immoral, but malicious groups SEO content that is harmful to civil society when deployed large-scale, so that the content is deployed large-scale on the platform. Edit, addendum: I think the Pope's understanding of the relationship between AI and manipulative content is influenced by the news cycle's reporting on matters such as GPT-2, deepfakes, Musk's wild claims about AI. My understanding is that AI being used for clearly immoral ends is not widespread in SV companies. On the other hand, reporting on Xinjiang frequently describes facial recognition and other AI technologies being used to surveil, discipline, control and punish the lives of minorities there. If there is a current and successful user of AI technologies for clearly immoral ends, that would be the PRC in West China. If there should be an audience to which technological advances enables > a new “form of barbarism” where the law of the strongest prevails over the common good it would be to the PRC.

35 points by lnguyen 7y ago

I'll save you a click: the "barbarism" in the clickbait title is incorrect usages of "technological advances such as artificial intelligence where the law of the strongest prevails over the common good" (article's paraphrasing, not Pope's words).

anon9001 7y ago
Thanks, I owe you a click ;)
jhanschoo 7y ago
I don't think it's paraphrasing since those are quoted. Literally, in the lead paragraph, > Pope Francis urged Silicon Valley giants on Friday to make sure technological advances such as artificial intelligence do not lead to a new “form of barbarism” where the law of the strongest prevails over the common good. Unfortunately the minutes are unavailable afaict.
- drusepth 7y ago
  Thanks for clarifying. I was just specifying my quote above was from the article text, not a direct quote from the Pope. FWIW, the actual quote from the Pope follows: >"If mankind’s so-called technological progress were to become an enemy of the common good, this would lead to an unfortunate regression to a form of barbarism dictated by the law of the strongest"

gen3 7y ago

I give the Pope credit on trying to keep up with tech. I clicked expecting to find something completely out of touch or off basis, and was pleasantly surprised. The more people talking about the effects of filter bubbles and the effects of our currently internet connected lives the better. I hope this opens a wider discussion with people who have less of a tech background, and encourages them to become more aware of the effects it has.

arduanika 7y ago

stick to the old barbarism. worst possible outcome is you'll be shuffled to a different diocese

mattigames 7y ago

Of all people that could talk about the matter it had to be the one that protects and encovers pedophiles, that a few centuries ago burned homosexuals and atheists alive, and they didn't stop because they realized it was wrong they only stopped because they lost political power after too many conflicts, one of the remaining institutions that keeps alive one of the biggest pilars of human stupidity which is believing in things just because, with arguments just as strongh as kids have arguments for Santa Claus and we are supposed to take them seriously? Listening to Tom Cruise as the head of Scientology would make as much sense.

diegoholiveira 7y ago
> one of the remaining institutions that keeps alive one of the biggest pilars of human stupidity Every single thing that you value as a higher moral standing came from that institution.
- redact207 7y ago
  Since most other cultures in the world figured out the whole don't murder and rape thing, I wouldn't say the Catholic church is the common denominator.
  - esyir 7y ago
    I... Wouldn't quite jump to that.
- mattigames 7y ago
  The opposite, I have read the Bible and it clearly supports slavery, stoning homosexuals and insolent children and many other things that are the opposite of a good civilization
  - diegoholiveira 7y ago
    That's a common mistake: read the bible. First you need to be catholic, only then you can read the bible without do the same mistake that our protestant brothers do. I do recommend this book: https://www.amazon.com/Catholic-Church-Built-Western-Civilization-ebook/dp/B00C0JE80W/ref=tmm_kin_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=&sr= https://www.amazon.com/Catholic-Church-Built-Western-Civiliz...

wideasleep1 7y ago

I suppose Pope Francis hasn't been on Twitter recently..too little too late.

kylek 7y ago
Should take a hint from @DalaiLama

ludamad 7y ago

There's a lot of talk here that is about the Catholic Church, but I appreciate this just as a statement from a highly influential figure that is not off base. There's a ring of truth that merciless optimization applied to human perception objectives is a dangerous area

pg_is_a_butt 7y ago

Hey pope... stop covering up for pedophiles.

presidentscroob 7y ago

Community (solidarity, cooperation, concern for others and knowing one's neighbors) is in steep decline in most of the US for many reasons, and especially in Silicon Valley because the vast majority of its denizens aren't settling permanently but are just in town temporarily to earn an income, so they care less about their surroundings or anyone else but themselves. Furthermore, higher income leads people to care less about others. (UC Berkeley Monopoly experiments) Possible solutions: - There ought to be a modern replacement for churches (the Atheist unchurches, multi-denominational churches), which were the focal points of communities for centuries. - Civic involvement in local law-making and local concerns. - Putting screens away to prioritize human interaction. - Revive the art of small-talk. - Less polarized/political interactions, seeking understanding of others' points of view (you can't persuade true believers of anything new if they're already in violent agreement). - Take the lead to create new leagues for group activities: bowling, skiing/snowboarding, ultimate frisbee, etc.

traderjane 7y ago
In order for people to be in a town permanently the town must provide sufficient and affordable living opportunities for all its citizens. The town must also have a robust vision for young professionals, family life, and senior care, otherwise it's a town which cannot handle the full path of life.

jhanschoo 7y ago

My two cents: > He warned of the dangers of the use of artificial intelligence “to circulate tendentious opinions and false data that could poison public debates and even manipulate the opinions of millions of people, to the point of endangering the very institutions that guarantee peaceful civil coexistence”. The current relation between AI and opinion manipulation is actually more nuanced than what I think the Pope perceives. On the one hand, large companies use algorithms (some falling under AI) to shape conversations on their platform, and do so with intentions that cannot easily be called immoral. On the other hand, the primary purveyors of manipulative content that weaken civil society exploit the algorithms in ways their design did not anticipate or intend. Example: FB's algorithm for surfacing content is not clearly immoral, but malicious groups SEO content that is harmful to civil society when deployed large-scale, so that the content is deployed large-scale on the platform. Edit, addendum: I think the Pope's understanding of the relationship between AI and manipulative content is influenced by the news cycle's reporting on matters such as GPT-2, deepfakes, Musk's wild claims about AI. My understanding is that AI being used for clearly immoral ends is not widespread in SV companies. On the other hand, reporting on Xinjiang frequently describes facial recognition and other AI technologies being used to surveil, discipline, control and punish the lives of minorities there. If there is a current and successful user of AI technologies for clearly immoral ends, that would be the PRC in West China. If there should be an audience to which technological advances enables > a new “form of barbarism” where the law of the strongest prevails over the common good it would be to the PRC.