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Can we really just outright claim that all sex workers think the same way? Does this work for any other group I want? Or could it be severely infantilizing? An

Can we really just outright claim that all sex workers think the same way? Does this work for any other group I want? Or could it be severely infantilizing? And it's just not true: https://sarahditum.com/2014/02/24/who-do-you-listen-to/ https://sarahditum.com/2014/02/24/who-do-you-listen-to/

rndgermandude 7y ago
Nobody here claimed that all sex workers think the same.
- detcader 7y ago
  > you have to listen to actual sex workers and ask them what they want. This is what was I was responding to. The article I linked talks more on this sentiment, which generally ends up doing the same as Amazon warehouse workers chiming in on Twitter about how much they love their jobs: defending exploitation by appealing to the convenient ideologies of individuals.
  - rndgermandude 7y ago
    >Can we really just outright claim that all sex workers think the same way? And this is what I responded to. Also a) implying that prostitution is exploitation per se and b) implying every sex worker who said something positive about their work is a somehow rewarded astroturf shill is at the very least problematic. There are happy sex workers, there are unhappy sex workers (who still do it with the same level of voluntary participation as a "data entry specialist" in some cubicle or a worker gutting fish in a factory do their jobs; to make ends meet) and there are exploited/coerced/forced sex workers. The latter is a problem and a big one, and there were and are many proposed solutions to tackle it, and nobody found a really well working one yet, but putting those victims in a spot where they themselves are criminals is something that I would think cannot be helpful.
    - deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]
henrikschroder 7y ago
The article does a pretty good job of showing examples of the "rescue industry", and how people who claim to be working in the interest of all sex workers simply aren't. Many are in it for their own ego or morals or posturing or money. The article also provided examples of people helping people get out of sex work, and actually being good at it. And the article also talks about the very thing you're protesting, there are two big narratives in the debate: "The happy hooker is a myth!" and "Sex workers who speak out are empowered feminist icons!" Both those narratives are extremes, and the article points out that reality is a lot more bland and boring and grey than that. The author talks about instances where a porn shoot was a great experience, but that mostly it was a boring shit job. Of course there are sex workers who hate their job and want to get out, but can't for numerous reasons, and need help getting out. Of course there are sex workers who hate their job, but would rather keep it, than take another shit job. Of course there are sex workers who occasionally hate their job, and occasionally love their job. Of course there are sex workers who like their job and would never want any other job. Of course there are sex workers who do it to finance a drug addiction. Of course there are sex workers who do it to finance their university education. Of course there are sex workers who have been abused and traumatized and hurt and beaten and killed in their work. Of course there are sex workers who have never experienced abuse in their work. And when I say "listen to actual sex workers", this is what I mean you have to listen to. All the good, and all the bad. All the different experiences that different people have. You can't just listen to all the bad, and immediately want to crack down and forbid it and try to stamp it out "for their own good", and assume it will magically disappear. You can't just listen to all the good, and immediately want to decriminalize it and assume it will all work out magically in the end either.

rndgermandude 7y ago

Nobody here claimed that all sex workers think the same.

detcader 7y ago
> you have to listen to actual sex workers and ask them what they want. This is what was I was responding to. The article I linked talks more on this sentiment, which generally ends up doing the same as Amazon warehouse workers chiming in on Twitter about how much they love their jobs: defending exploitation by appealing to the convenient ideologies of individuals.
- rndgermandude 7y ago
  >Can we really just outright claim that all sex workers think the same way? And this is what I responded to. Also a) implying that prostitution is exploitation per se and b) implying every sex worker who said something positive about their work is a somehow rewarded astroturf shill is at the very least problematic. There are happy sex workers, there are unhappy sex workers (who still do it with the same level of voluntary participation as a "data entry specialist" in some cubicle or a worker gutting fish in a factory do their jobs; to make ends meet) and there are exploited/coerced/forced sex workers. The latter is a problem and a big one, and there were and are many proposed solutions to tackle it, and nobody found a really well working one yet, but putting those victims in a spot where they themselves are criminals is something that I would think cannot be helpful.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]

henrikschroder 7y ago

The article does a pretty good job of showing examples of the "rescue industry", and how people who claim to be working in the interest of all sex workers simply aren't. Many are in it for their own ego or morals or posturing or money. The article also provided examples of people helping people get out of sex work, and actually being good at it. And the article also talks about the very thing you're protesting, there are two big narratives in the debate: "The happy hooker is a myth!" and "Sex workers who speak out are empowered feminist icons!" Both those narratives are extremes, and the article points out that reality is a lot more bland and boring and grey than that. The author talks about instances where a porn shoot was a great experience, but that mostly it was a boring shit job. Of course there are sex workers who hate their job and want to get out, but can't for numerous reasons, and need help getting out. Of course there are sex workers who hate their job, but would rather keep it, than take another shit job. Of course there are sex workers who occasionally hate their job, and occasionally love their job. Of course there are sex workers who like their job and would never want any other job. Of course there are sex workers who do it to finance a drug addiction. Of course there are sex workers who do it to finance their university education. Of course there are sex workers who have been abused and traumatized and hurt and beaten and killed in their work. Of course there are sex workers who have never experienced abuse in their work. And when I say "listen to actual sex workers", this is what I mean you have to listen to. All the good, and all the bad. All the different experiences that different people have. You can't just listen to all the bad, and immediately want to crack down and forbid it and try to stamp it out "for their own good", and assume it will magically disappear. You can't just listen to all the good, and immediately want to decriminalize it and assume it will all work out magically in the end either.