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Female sexual attraction favors secure men who don't talk feelings. This results in men feeling unable to express their emotions around their significant other.

by pubby 7y ago

Female sexual attraction favors secure men who don't talk feelings. This results in men feeling unable to express their emotions around their significant other. On the other side, male sexuality selects based on looks more than anything. Feminism calls the latter shallow and toxic, but truthfully both should have that label. Neither is serving society or evolution well anymore. But what can we do? Sexual attraction is an innate, unchanging aspect of what it means to be man and woman. It isn't going to be removed from our genes anytime soon.

tick_tock_tick 7y ago
Both sides actually select for looks more than any other characteristic.
OtterEcho 7y ago
I've found that women often appreciate and find men who are authentic, emotions included, attractive. You can always overshare and if you express emotions in a way where you put the burden on the other person, I don't think anybody really enjoys that
- rolltiide 7y ago
  > I've found that women often appreciate and find men who are authentic, emotions included, attractive. I have found they are attracted to the idea of that, until they get it. Understand there are consequences and approach objectively. The same idea of a lot men liking the chase more than actually being with a woman. Let them chase an idea of a man sharing feelings, let them chase the idea they can change a man into sharing. But be aware there are often consequences that don't involve them being interested in you any longer if you actually share. No its # not all women, no its not collaborative or mature. But I guarantee you can keep the sexual companionship of many more women for longer if you shut up and dangle an emotional string just out of paws reach. If you’re looking for a more mature life partner? Keep looking! But if you like consistent sex with people that think they’ll change you into a life partner that they wont be attracted to, be aware of what is happening and understand a lot of the relationship power imbalance in your favor comes from this and continuing it. A lot of women don't consciously know they do this, just one day after you open up or do something less masculine, they don't see you the same again. Enjoy a satire on this concept that many might find relatable but never had spelled out for them: https://local.theonion.com/girlfriend-changes-man-into-someone-shes-not-interested-1819565990 https://local.theonion.com/girlfriend-changes-man-into-someo...
- Ancalagon 7y ago
  I disagree, maybe those women appreciate authentic emotions among friends, but at least while on the dating scene, authenticity NEVER won me any points, and quite to the contrary, the stoic/mysterious man always won out.
  - SomeOldThrow 7y ago
    Maybe the issue is viewing relationships in terms of points and winning.
  - OtterEcho 7y ago
    I think the stoic/mystery "distant" persona works at first but if you want to foster and deeper connection between someone as an equal than you have to open up
    - shard972 7y ago
      Hes talking about dating aps though.
PhasmaFelis 7y ago
> Female sexual attraction favors secure men who don't talk feelings. That has absolutely not been my experience.
krapp 7y ago
> But what can we do? Sexuality is an innate, unchanging aspect of what it means to be man and woman, and it isn't going to be removed from our genes anytime soon. Not entirely. Not every woman is attracted to the strong silent type, and not every culture has always favored that form of masculinity. Historically, the amount of emotion and intellect a man was permitted to display has depended more on social status and class than genetics. "Gentlemen" and "men of breeding" used to write poetry and sonnets and kiss one another on the mouth and women would still swoon over them. Letters written by soldiers to their wives during wartime often display a great deal of tender emotion and passion. Also, not every man is primarily attracted to looks. While it probably is true that men are more focused on that than women, it's certainly the case for women as well, and often for men it's a sign of immaturity, but men do mature. What can we do? First, accept that we're not mere automatons running sexual algorithms - sexuality is far more subtle and variant than the stereotype of "men like strippers, women like cowboys." I don't know at what point some men seem to have decided that "masculinity" is entirely biological and immutable and that they are doomed to be slaves to their primate urges, but it simply isn't true. Almost everything about the human condition is fluid, and masculinity like femininity and gender is at least in part a social construct and internalized complex, both of which can be changed.
adamsea 7y ago
"Female sexual attraction favors secure men who don't talk feelings. This results in men feeling unable to express their emotions around their significant other." Sources?
- tachyonbeam 7y ago
  The evolutionary psychology idea is that women are attracted to men who show leader-like traits. That means appearing to have high self confidence, not expressing doubt but seeming certain, seeming generally happy and energetic. In terms of leadership, who do people follow? The guy who's got good ideas but is not quite sure of himself, or the guy who tells you it's going to be insanely great?
  - poslathian 7y ago
    Speaking of leading to the “insanely great” promised land, apple’s cofounder was an infamous crier...not sure how that fits into the worldview here.
    - tachyonbeam 7y ago
      If you mean Steve Wozniak, he's a great engineer, but he's not charismatic like Steve Jobs, and that's part of why he kind of faded into the background. Most people know who Steve Jobs is, but not Steve Wozniak.
maximente 7y ago
to see an extremely complex personal, social, cultural and biological behavior reduced to two trite sentences is nothing short of hilarious. there must be something about pop evolutionary psychology that appeals to your typical hacker news poster, because i've seen this comment in various forms in several places now. maybe it's hubris or something.
- cam_l 7y ago
  Indeed. Hacker News, Hubris Views.
romwell 7y ago
>Female sexual attraction favors secure men who don't talk feelings. Citation needed. And being afraid to express one's emotions is anything but security.
- Ancalagon 7y ago
  Fear of expression doesn't necessarily lead to an exhibit of that fear. The impression of security is enough.
jancsika 7y ago
> But what can we do? If only there were a way of approaching these problems in a clever and playful manner. You can almost imagine a forum full of such problem solvers helping each other work around the seeming limitations of our physical hardware. Almost.
taneq 7y ago
> Female sexual attraction favors secure men who don't talk feelings. No, no. Women love it when men share their feelings. But they've gotta be the right feelings. A man should be brave and confident and supportive and strong and happy and secure. Maybe he worries about things a little, sometimes, but then he's OK again and he always has a plan. He's unafraid to open up and be vulnerable, of course, but what he's being vulnerable to is never anything that would be a burden on anyone else or reduce his usefulness to the woman.
claudiawerner 7y ago
>Sexual attraction is an innate, unchanging aspect of what it means to be man and woman. It isn't going to be removed from our genes anytime soon. This is obviously false. Just as our preferences for food have changed over time and according to culture (yet we all must eat), attitudes towards what is and isn't considered attractive have also changed. While it may be true for any given individual one cannot change the attractions they feel (or maybe it isn't true, I don't know), you ruined whatever point you were making when you mentioned genes, as if genetics dictate that (1) women (as in, all women, after all, you said it's "unchanging" and "in our genes") prefer men who don't express their emotions (2) the primary consideration for men is looks.

by pubby 7y ago

tick_tock_tick 7y ago

Both sides actually select for looks more than any other characteristic.

OtterEcho 7y ago

I've found that women often appreciate and find men who are authentic, emotions included, attractive. You can always overshare and if you express emotions in a way where you put the burden on the other person, I don't think anybody really enjoys that

rolltiide 7y ago
> I've found that women often appreciate and find men who are authentic, emotions included, attractive. I have found they are attracted to the idea of that, until they get it. Understand there are consequences and approach objectively. The same idea of a lot men liking the chase more than actually being with a woman. Let them chase an idea of a man sharing feelings, let them chase the idea they can change a man into sharing. But be aware there are often consequences that don't involve them being interested in you any longer if you actually share. No its # not all women, no its not collaborative or mature. But I guarantee you can keep the sexual companionship of many more women for longer if you shut up and dangle an emotional string just out of paws reach. If you’re looking for a more mature life partner? Keep looking! But if you like consistent sex with people that think they’ll change you into a life partner that they wont be attracted to, be aware of what is happening and understand a lot of the relationship power imbalance in your favor comes from this and continuing it. A lot of women don't consciously know they do this, just one day after you open up or do something less masculine, they don't see you the same again. Enjoy a satire on this concept that many might find relatable but never had spelled out for them: https://local.theonion.com/girlfriend-changes-man-into-someone-shes-not-interested-1819565990 https://local.theonion.com/girlfriend-changes-man-into-someo...
Ancalagon 7y ago
I disagree, maybe those women appreciate authentic emotions among friends, but at least while on the dating scene, authenticity NEVER won me any points, and quite to the contrary, the stoic/mysterious man always won out.
- SomeOldThrow 7y ago
  Maybe the issue is viewing relationships in terms of points and winning.
- OtterEcho 7y ago
  I think the stoic/mystery "distant" persona works at first but if you want to foster and deeper connection between someone as an equal than you have to open up
  - shard972 7y ago
    Hes talking about dating aps though.

PhasmaFelis 7y ago

> Female sexual attraction favors secure men who don't talk feelings. That has absolutely not been my experience.

krapp 7y ago

> But what can we do? Sexuality is an innate, unchanging aspect of what it means to be man and woman, and it isn't going to be removed from our genes anytime soon. Not entirely. Not every woman is attracted to the strong silent type, and not every culture has always favored that form of masculinity. Historically, the amount of emotion and intellect a man was permitted to display has depended more on social status and class than genetics. "Gentlemen" and "men of breeding" used to write poetry and sonnets and kiss one another on the mouth and women would still swoon over them. Letters written by soldiers to their wives during wartime often display a great deal of tender emotion and passion. Also, not every man is primarily attracted to looks. While it probably is true that men are more focused on that than women, it's certainly the case for women as well, and often for men it's a sign of immaturity, but men do mature. What can we do? First, accept that we're not mere automatons running sexual algorithms - sexuality is far more subtle and variant than the stereotype of "men like strippers, women like cowboys." I don't know at what point some men seem to have decided that "masculinity" is entirely biological and immutable and that they are doomed to be slaves to their primate urges, but it simply isn't true. Almost everything about the human condition is fluid, and masculinity like femininity and gender is at least in part a social construct and internalized complex, both of which can be changed.

adamsea 7y ago

"Female sexual attraction favors secure men who don't talk feelings. This results in men feeling unable to express their emotions around their significant other." Sources?

tachyonbeam 7y ago
The evolutionary psychology idea is that women are attracted to men who show leader-like traits. That means appearing to have high self confidence, not expressing doubt but seeming certain, seeming generally happy and energetic. In terms of leadership, who do people follow? The guy who's got good ideas but is not quite sure of himself, or the guy who tells you it's going to be insanely great?
- poslathian 7y ago
  Speaking of leading to the “insanely great” promised land, apple’s cofounder was an infamous crier...not sure how that fits into the worldview here.
  - tachyonbeam 7y ago
    If you mean Steve Wozniak, he's a great engineer, but he's not charismatic like Steve Jobs, and that's part of why he kind of faded into the background. Most people know who Steve Jobs is, but not Steve Wozniak.

maximente 7y ago

to see an extremely complex personal, social, cultural and biological behavior reduced to two trite sentences is nothing short of hilarious. there must be something about pop evolutionary psychology that appeals to your typical hacker news poster, because i've seen this comment in various forms in several places now. maybe it's hubris or something.

cam_l 7y ago
Indeed. Hacker News, Hubris Views.

romwell 7y ago

>Female sexual attraction favors secure men who don't talk feelings. Citation needed. And being afraid to express one's emotions is anything but security.

Ancalagon 7y ago
Fear of expression doesn't necessarily lead to an exhibit of that fear. The impression of security is enough.

jancsika 7y ago

> But what can we do? If only there were a way of approaching these problems in a clever and playful manner. You can almost imagine a forum full of such problem solvers helping each other work around the seeming limitations of our physical hardware. Almost.

taneq 7y ago

> Female sexual attraction favors secure men who don't talk feelings. No, no. Women love it when men share their feelings. But they've gotta be the right feelings. A man should be brave and confident and supportive and strong and happy and secure. Maybe he worries about things a little, sometimes, but then he's OK again and he always has a plan. He's unafraid to open up and be vulnerable, of course, but what he's being vulnerable to is never anything that would be a burden on anyone else or reduce his usefulness to the woman.

claudiawerner 7y ago

>Sexual attraction is an innate, unchanging aspect of what it means to be man and woman. It isn't going to be removed from our genes anytime soon. This is obviously false. Just as our preferences for food have changed over time and according to culture (yet we all must eat), attitudes towards what is and isn't considered attractive have also changed. While it may be true for any given individual one cannot change the attractions they feel (or maybe it isn't true, I don't know), you ruined whatever point you were making when you mentioned genes, as if genetics dictate that (1) women (as in, all women, after all, you said it's "unchanging" and "in our genes") prefer men who don't express their emotions (2) the primary consideration for men is looks.