7 ms·

How would have JavaScript made them better off?

by switch007 7y ago

outworlder 7y ago
Don't eat the bait. This will devolve into yet another pointless discussion.
- xwdv 7y ago
  Too late. Javascript would have made it far easier to hire talent, and develop a much better user experience without multiple page refreshes. In some cases it would even be easier to develop a cross platform mobile application if you use Javascript as well.
  - wolco 7y ago
    Ability to find php developers is usually a reason to choose php. It's actually harder to find good js developers. Javascript frameworks work nicely with php acting as an api. An even better approach is a hybrid that allows you to use a framework like Vue/React or a libruary like jQuery but also allows you to use php to power your pages. This gives you the ability to have an spa per section. A common approach is to use an api to deliver data to your mobile app. If you've built it in php that can be reused.
    - xnyan 7y ago
      Hey! New dev honestly trying to learn why PHP matters at all in 2019. Is PHP something I should stop learning JS for? In all my (very limited) experience, PHP does not solve any problem JavaScript can't, and JS is also far more in demand.
      - vageli 7y ago
        > Hey! New dev honestly trying to learn why PHP matters at all in 2019. Is PHP something I should stop learning JS for? In all my (very limited) experience, PHP does not solve any problem JavaScript can't, and JS is also far more in demand. If the only motivation for learning a language is applicability to the job field, javascript probably will open more doors at this point, depending on your location. PHP is really great for getting MVPs out the door in my experience, but a productive engineer in any language would likely have the same experience in the language of their choosing. I am by no means a PHP developer though.
      - rovr138 7y ago
        Honestly, it depends on the location and the industry you want to work in. Having said that, PHP and JS aren’t the only ones. You will also find Java, Python, Ruby, C# for examples. > PHP does not solve any problem JavaScript can’t Any language will solve anything you can do in any other language. > JS is also more in demand Depends on industry, location and even teams at the company as well as the standards and requirements which could vary by project. Having said all that, if you‘re learning JS, yes, you can find jobs that use it.
      - rawoke083600 7y ago
        I do a lot of utility programming in it.. (prob cause I know it well) * quick web scraping script (just with curl or file_get_contents) not the insane https-request-libs * parsing some CSV files and generate SQL statements * one-page website for monitoring/dashboard * logging scripts (speed test hourly - working on article) Even built a CLI xml feed processing system with it. Php7 is really fast and memory efficient. Not saying there aren't better or faster languages. Guess its just a tool a reach for often, since I know it well and you can get far with a basic install without loading 1000 of npm/js packages. I only seldom need to use composer for my my* purposes.
      - samsonradu 7y ago
        > PHP does not solve any problem JavaScript can't. PHP matters and if anything it would be good for you to learn both. It will give you a better insight on different ways to build software and use the appropriate solution. PHP is a mature ecosystem with reliable tools/frameworks. It is relatively easy to learn and you can become productive quickly. One benefit I find of PHP that is less mentioned: When your team is short on people (and that happens quite often), you can pretty much throw anyone (provided they are generally competent) at a PHP codebase and they will do well. Wouldn't say the same for a back-end JS project, I've seen what a Java developer can do to a JS codebase. PHP bites far less often than JS in my opinion.
      - wolco 7y ago
        Any language can solve similiar problems. Take this built-in php function: array_column array_column() returns the values from a single column of the input, identified by the column_key To perform the same in Javascript you either need to write something or find a package. There are many examples like this of build-in useful functionality. PHP allows you to do a lot with very little code which allows you to focus on a difficult problem rather than a difficult problem and how to shape it with whatever language. Keep learning javascript but don't try to do everything with it. Ignoring php, ruby or python on the backend will slow you down. Ignoring sql would be another mistake.
      - sweeneyrod 7y ago
        If we're talking about JS/PHP, we're talking about web development. Front-end stuff has to be done in JS (you can use something else that compiles to JS but I expect you would find that difficult with zero JS knowledge). Back-end stuff can be done in any language, although some (e.g. PHP, Ruby, Python, JS) are more common than say C++. So you can do web development using only JS. But different languages have different pros/cons/approaches, so it's definitely worth venturing outside the JS world at some point. However, if you're still relatively new to JS you should focus on getting to a decent level in that first.
      - xwdv 7y ago
        Bro, let me tell you, there’s a reason why people say “Never bet against Javascript”. If you become a great Javascript dev it will open you to far more opportunities, front end, back end, and everything in between.
RandallBrown 7y ago
The point wasn't that javascript would be better, it was that the person couldn't answer why they chose an older tech stack instead of one of the newer ones.
- PetahNZ 7y ago
  How is php old? Is c++, c#, Java etc considered old and should not be chosen too?
  - RandallBrown 7y ago
    The point isn't that those choices are older and therefore worse, it's that there are now more choices. They should be able to say why they went with PHP over something else that was available at the time they started.
    - wolco 7y ago
      Why would you ask that and expect an answer? Was the person who orginally wrote the application in the room? Did you think to ask why they were using windows instead of macs? Or why leather seats? What were you hoping to get out of your question? Did you want to show the interviewer how hype you were? Were you hoping that you could educate them why using a javascript would be better? This was at an interview correct (not over beers with friends)? Curious how did your next interview go? Have you found work in the field? Are you working with a js framework.
      - RandallBrown 7y ago
        I'm not the person that asked Wag this question, but I do think it was a valid one. I'll try and explain why. Even if they weren't the person that made the choice, them knowing the reasoning behind the choice tells you a lot about the team. I usually expect new members of teams to ask questions about why the application was written the way it was. This shows a general curiosity among team members and it shows that the team can transfer knowledge to each other. Knowing why they made decisions I might not agree with helps me decide how the team makes decisions in general. Is there one manager that decides things without input? Does the whole team give input and decide democratically? Are they saddled with technical debt from the co-founders last failed startup that's 10 years older?
dang 7y ago
We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21096033 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21096033 and marked it off-topic.

How would have JavaScript made them better off?

outworlder 7y ago

Don't eat the bait. This will devolve into yet another pointless discussion.

xwdv 7y ago
Too late. Javascript would have made it far easier to hire talent, and develop a much better user experience without multiple page refreshes. In some cases it would even be easier to develop a cross platform mobile application if you use Javascript as well.
- wolco 7y ago
  Ability to find php developers is usually a reason to choose php. It's actually harder to find good js developers. Javascript frameworks work nicely with php acting as an api. An even better approach is a hybrid that allows you to use a framework like Vue/React or a libruary like jQuery but also allows you to use php to power your pages. This gives you the ability to have an spa per section. A common approach is to use an api to deliver data to your mobile app. If you've built it in php that can be reused.
  - xnyan 7y ago
    Hey! New dev honestly trying to learn why PHP matters at all in 2019. Is PHP something I should stop learning JS for? In all my (very limited) experience, PHP does not solve any problem JavaScript can't, and JS is also far more in demand.
    - vageli 7y ago
      > Hey! New dev honestly trying to learn why PHP matters at all in 2019. Is PHP something I should stop learning JS for? In all my (very limited) experience, PHP does not solve any problem JavaScript can't, and JS is also far more in demand. If the only motivation for learning a language is applicability to the job field, javascript probably will open more doors at this point, depending on your location. PHP is really great for getting MVPs out the door in my experience, but a productive engineer in any language would likely have the same experience in the language of their choosing. I am by no means a PHP developer though.
    - rovr138 7y ago
      Honestly, it depends on the location and the industry you want to work in. Having said that, PHP and JS aren’t the only ones. You will also find Java, Python, Ruby, C# for examples. > PHP does not solve any problem JavaScript can’t Any language will solve anything you can do in any other language. > JS is also more in demand Depends on industry, location and even teams at the company as well as the standards and requirements which could vary by project. Having said all that, if you‘re learning JS, yes, you can find jobs that use it.
    - rawoke083600 7y ago
      I do a lot of utility programming in it.. (prob cause I know it well) * quick web scraping script (just with curl or file_get_contents) not the insane https-request-libs * parsing some CSV files and generate SQL statements * one-page website for monitoring/dashboard * logging scripts (speed test hourly - working on article) Even built a CLI xml feed processing system with it. Php7 is really fast and memory efficient. Not saying there aren't better or faster languages. Guess its just a tool a reach for often, since I know it well and you can get far with a basic install without loading 1000 of npm/js packages. I only seldom need to use composer for my my* purposes.
    - samsonradu 7y ago
      > PHP does not solve any problem JavaScript can't. PHP matters and if anything it would be good for you to learn both. It will give you a better insight on different ways to build software and use the appropriate solution. PHP is a mature ecosystem with reliable tools/frameworks. It is relatively easy to learn and you can become productive quickly. One benefit I find of PHP that is less mentioned: When your team is short on people (and that happens quite often), you can pretty much throw anyone (provided they are generally competent) at a PHP codebase and they will do well. Wouldn't say the same for a back-end JS project, I've seen what a Java developer can do to a JS codebase. PHP bites far less often than JS in my opinion.
    - wolco 7y ago
      Any language can solve similiar problems. Take this built-in php function: array_column array_column() returns the values from a single column of the input, identified by the column_key To perform the same in Javascript you either need to write something or find a package. There are many examples like this of build-in useful functionality. PHP allows you to do a lot with very little code which allows you to focus on a difficult problem rather than a difficult problem and how to shape it with whatever language. Keep learning javascript but don't try to do everything with it. Ignoring php, ruby or python on the backend will slow you down. Ignoring sql would be another mistake.
    - sweeneyrod 7y ago
      If we're talking about JS/PHP, we're talking about web development. Front-end stuff has to be done in JS (you can use something else that compiles to JS but I expect you would find that difficult with zero JS knowledge). Back-end stuff can be done in any language, although some (e.g. PHP, Ruby, Python, JS) are more common than say C++. So you can do web development using only JS. But different languages have different pros/cons/approaches, so it's definitely worth venturing outside the JS world at some point. However, if you're still relatively new to JS you should focus on getting to a decent level in that first.
    - xwdv 7y ago
      Bro, let me tell you, there’s a reason why people say “Never bet against Javascript”. If you become a great Javascript dev it will open you to far more opportunities, front end, back end, and everything in between.

RandallBrown 7y ago

The point wasn't that javascript would be better, it was that the person couldn't answer why they chose an older tech stack instead of one of the newer ones.

PetahNZ 7y ago
How is php old? Is c++, c#, Java etc considered old and should not be chosen too?
- RandallBrown 7y ago
  The point isn't that those choices are older and therefore worse, it's that there are now more choices. They should be able to say why they went with PHP over something else that was available at the time they started.
  - wolco 7y ago
    Why would you ask that and expect an answer? Was the person who orginally wrote the application in the room? Did you think to ask why they were using windows instead of macs? Or why leather seats? What were you hoping to get out of your question? Did you want to show the interviewer how hype you were? Were you hoping that you could educate them why using a javascript would be better? This was at an interview correct (not over beers with friends)? Curious how did your next interview go? Have you found work in the field? Are you working with a js framework.
    - RandallBrown 7y ago
      I'm not the person that asked Wag this question, but I do think it was a valid one. I'll try and explain why. Even if they weren't the person that made the choice, them knowing the reasoning behind the choice tells you a lot about the team. I usually expect new members of teams to ask questions about why the application was written the way it was. This shows a general curiosity among team members and it shows that the team can transfer knowledge to each other. Knowing why they made decisions I might not agree with helps me decide how the team makes decisions in general. Is there one manager that decides things without input? Does the whole team give input and decide democratically? Are they saddled with technical debt from the co-founders last failed startup that's 10 years older?

dang 7y ago

We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21096033 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21096033 and marked it off-topic.