4 ms·

> All that's been said is that someone with a history of being aggressive, supporting of paedophilia, unable to determine appropriate times to debate, and lacki

> All that's been said is that someone with a history of being aggressive, supporting of paedophilia, unable to determine appropriate times to debate, and lacking social graces wasn't the best person to lead an organization. That doesn't sound like what happened at all. More like he dared to challenge a witchhunt against someone with a tenuous connection to Epstein, and the witchhunt turned on him.

_coveredInBees 7y ago
Have you actually read all the statements he posted publicly on his site? Because your comment glosses over almost everything he said, and how he said it, to make it seem as though he were some completely innocent, blameless party caught up in a shitstorm because he dared to voice a countering opinion.
- leereeves 7y ago
  You can't ignore the timing. If he wasn't fired/forced to resign because of his comments about Minsky, why did it happen just after those comments?
  - dmurdoch 7y ago
    Because those comments brought him to the attention of people who were not as familiar with his work. They then saw many comments about pedophilia and his behaviour towards women in the industry. His comments about Minksy aren't enough to warrant the backlash. But his LONG history of poor behaviour absolutely is. He brought the spotlight ON HIMSELF by commenting on such a high profile case. That spotlight then listed all his flaws. Those flaws got him where he is today.
    - leereeves 7y ago
      That's not what I saw. Instead I saw (and still see) people (in this very thread even) saying he "came out to defend the pedophiles". Media stories discussing his remarks about Minsky, with headlines vaguely connecting him to Epstein. The famous Selam G. hit piece mostly about (and misreading) his comments about Minksy. His past remarks and behavior are at most a footnote in these stories. That said, I agree it's clear he made a lot of enemies with his past behavior and that certainly didn't help him at a time like this when he needs allies willing to stand against the mob and speak on his behalf.
sodosopa 7y ago
It wasn’t a witchhunt. The pedophiles were outed insulted they were discovered after bating people with money for years. Then folks like Stallman came out to defend the pedophiles. People are disgusted by this defense so they want others like him removed from their organizations. Remove the roaches instead of demolishing the building.
- leereeves 7y ago
  Is there any evidence Minsky was a pedophile? What I heard is that Minsky once attended an Epstein party where an underage woman came on to him (at Epstein's behest) and he refused. And Stallman's comments were about that, not defending Epstein. But now you say "Stallman came out to defend the pedophiles", so you must have some evidence I haven't heard.
  - merlincorey 7y ago
    > But now you say "Stallman came out to defend the pedophiles", so you must have some evidence I haven't heard. I believe people are referencing his long history of notes[0] supporting pedophelia such as this: > 04 January 2013 (Pedophilia) > There is little evidence to justify the widespread assumption that willing participation in pedophilia hurts children. > Granted, children may not dare say no to an older relative, or may not realize they could say no; in that case, even if they do not overtly object, the relationship may still feel imposed to them. That's not willing participation, it's imposed participation, a different issue. [0] https://stallman.org/archives/2012-nov-feb.html https://stallman.org/archives/2012-nov-feb.html
    - leereeves 7y ago
      You shouldn't post that without also posting this: > Many years ago I posted that I could not see anything wrong about sex between an adult and a child, if the child accepted it. > Through personal conversations in recent years, I've learned to understand how sex with a child can harm per psychologically. This changed my mind about the matter: I think adults should not do that. I am grateful for the conversations that enabled me to understand why. https://stallman.org/archives/2019-jul-oct.html#14_September_2019_(Sex_between_an_adult_and_a_child_is_wrong) https://stallman.org/archives/2019-jul-oct.html#14_September...
deleted 7y ago
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bdcravens 7y ago
RMS has long been a controversial person, with a very abrasive personality. I think even had he been an angel he would have received the same result in today's cancel culture, but there's a lot of people who have looking to turn on him and just needed an excuse. Most people won't come to a bully's defense.

_coveredInBees 7y ago

Have you actually read all the statements he posted publicly on his site? Because your comment glosses over almost everything he said, and how he said it, to make it seem as though he were some completely innocent, blameless party caught up in a shitstorm because he dared to voice a countering opinion.

leereeves 7y ago
You can't ignore the timing. If he wasn't fired/forced to resign because of his comments about Minsky, why did it happen just after those comments?
- dmurdoch 7y ago
  Because those comments brought him to the attention of people who were not as familiar with his work. They then saw many comments about pedophilia and his behaviour towards women in the industry. His comments about Minksy aren't enough to warrant the backlash. But his LONG history of poor behaviour absolutely is. He brought the spotlight ON HIMSELF by commenting on such a high profile case. That spotlight then listed all his flaws. Those flaws got him where he is today.
  - leereeves 7y ago
    That's not what I saw. Instead I saw (and still see) people (in this very thread even) saying he "came out to defend the pedophiles". Media stories discussing his remarks about Minsky, with headlines vaguely connecting him to Epstein. The famous Selam G. hit piece mostly about (and misreading) his comments about Minksy. His past remarks and behavior are at most a footnote in these stories. That said, I agree it's clear he made a lot of enemies with his past behavior and that certainly didn't help him at a time like this when he needs allies willing to stand against the mob and speak on his behalf.

sodosopa 7y ago

It wasn’t a witchhunt. The pedophiles were outed insulted they were discovered after bating people with money for years. Then folks like Stallman came out to defend the pedophiles. People are disgusted by this defense so they want others like him removed from their organizations. Remove the roaches instead of demolishing the building.

leereeves 7y ago
Is there any evidence Minsky was a pedophile? What I heard is that Minsky once attended an Epstein party where an underage woman came on to him (at Epstein's behest) and he refused. And Stallman's comments were about that, not defending Epstein. But now you say "Stallman came out to defend the pedophiles", so you must have some evidence I haven't heard.
- merlincorey 7y ago
  > But now you say "Stallman came out to defend the pedophiles", so you must have some evidence I haven't heard. I believe people are referencing his long history of notes[0] supporting pedophelia such as this: > 04 January 2013 (Pedophilia) > There is little evidence to justify the widespread assumption that willing participation in pedophilia hurts children. > Granted, children may not dare say no to an older relative, or may not realize they could say no; in that case, even if they do not overtly object, the relationship may still feel imposed to them. That's not willing participation, it's imposed participation, a different issue. [0] https://stallman.org/archives/2012-nov-feb.html https://stallman.org/archives/2012-nov-feb.html
  - leereeves 7y ago
    You shouldn't post that without also posting this: > Many years ago I posted that I could not see anything wrong about sex between an adult and a child, if the child accepted it. > Through personal conversations in recent years, I've learned to understand how sex with a child can harm per psychologically. This changed my mind about the matter: I think adults should not do that. I am grateful for the conversations that enabled me to understand why. https://stallman.org/archives/2019-jul-oct.html#14_September_2019_(Sex_between_an_adult_and_a_child_is_wrong) https://stallman.org/archives/2019-jul-oct.html#14_September...

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

bdcravens 7y ago

RMS has long been a controversial person, with a very abrasive personality. I think even had he been an angel he would have received the same result in today's cancel culture, but there's a lot of people who have looking to turn on him and just needed an excuse. Most people won't come to a bully's defense.