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> But he defended someone who associated with Epstein and who had sex with an underage girl, he got from Epstein. He did not. I think it's time to cut with th

> But he defended someone who associated with Epstein and who had sex with an underage girl, he got from Epstein. He did not. I think it's time to cut with the BS! - according to the sources Minsky never had sex with the girl, if you have proof of the contrary, please provide them - Stallman was not defending Minsky, in fact he even assumed the sex happened, he was arguing against using the term "sexual assault" because its legal definition is very different from the everyday connotation But I found something I think you might enjoy. I found someone who probably nailed it How about, if the old person would be mick jagger? I could imagine, he still has his charms to some. Also I have seen young attractive women aproaching old yoga gurus for example .. But yeah, the old guy wasn't mick jagger, nor a yoga master and at best he did assume the girl was a 18+ old prostitue doing it willingly for money and power And he (Minsky) turned her down. p.s. the author of that comment is you

hutzlibu 7y ago
Yeah, I know what I have written. I also know that I have written, that I did not know many details about the case or the witch hunt in general as it was a witch hunt, in which both sides were wildly throwing accusations around and I found it hard to find actual facts. And that seemes to be still he case. Now apparently I misunderstood the comment about the sign being tacked later on, but how do you know Minsky turned her down?
- hvis 7y ago
  "Both sides"? What wild accusations is the defending side throwing? The details are not 100% clear at this point, but there's a testimonial: https://pjmedia.com/instapundit/339725/ https://pjmedia.com/instapundit/339725/ Also: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marvin_Minsky#Epstein_interaction https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marvin_Minsky#Epstein_interact...
  - hutzlibu 7y ago
    "Attention whore" to the women who wrote the blogpost. The claim that the sign was attached to the door later (yours not intentional, but on other comments, I saw it like this) The claim as a fact, that Minsky did not have sex with that girl. When this remains unclear so far.
    - hvis 7y ago
      OK, I'll give you that. But what actually sounds worse, "attention whore" or "creep, pedo and rape apologist"? The girl is likely going to get out of the scandal unscathed, so in my personal opinion she deserves whatever scorn she has received. And whether or not the sex happened, is probably irrelevant in the context of this discussion. After all, it wasn't public knowledge on Sep 12.
      - hutzlibu 7y ago
        Well, many people described RMS as a creep. And when the accusations are true, that for example he told women they should date him or he kills himself, than that is valid. He openly advocated against criminalization of pädophiles. That gets you the term pedo, even though not fair, it is playing with fire. And if it was indeed a case rape, in the sense of exploitation of a minor by minsky, who felt the rush of lust, which the other sides asume, than he is a rape apologist, if he says the most likeley scenario is, that she presented her as "willing", as this is, like I said, the common rape defence. But like I said, I allmost don't know any actual facts, except that the whole discussion was horrible, as most people did not know nor wanted to know facts, before judging.
        hvis 7y ago
        > Well, many people described RMS as a creep. And when the accusations are true, that for example he told women they should date him or he kills himself, than that is valid. If. And was it "women" or "a woman"? Once? Maybe, like, 30-40 years ago? If happened, it was a shitty thing to do, but it shouldn't have any effect on a person's life decades later. Maybe consider the whole span of his career before readily accepting 3-4 vague rumors as something really damning. > He openly advocated against criminalization of pädophiles. That gets you the term pedo, even though not fair, it is playing with fire. True. But that's been known for years. And stating one's opinion once on a personal blog is not a crime. > But like I said, I allmost don't know any actual facts, except that the whole discussion was horrible, as most people did not know nor wanted to know facts, before judging. It's unfair to conclude "everybody behaved badly" and shrug when only one side is paying the price. Espesially since the choice to move the "discourse" to the social media plaforms (inhabited by very different people) has been made by the original accuser.
hutzlibu 7y ago
Also "he was arguing against using the term "sexual assault" because its legal definition is very different from the everyday connotation" He did quite more than a semantic argument, by saying "more than willing"
- hvis 7y ago
  > more than willing Who said that and when?
  - hutzlibu 7y ago
    Ok, slightly misquoted from the head. "but the most plausible scenario is that she presented herself to him as entirely willing. " Is the quote from EMS I mean. The one who started all this.
    - hvis 7y ago
      It was a guess. And not an entirely implausible one. Yes, apparently some people have an extremely emotional reaction to seeing the word "willing" anywhere near the topic of sexual exploitation, but that's not a good enough reason to break out the torches full-on. Especially in an academic environment (where people are supposed to be able to think first).

hutzlibu 7y ago

Yeah, I know what I have written. I also know that I have written, that I did not know many details about the case or the witch hunt in general as it was a witch hunt, in which both sides were wildly throwing accusations around and I found it hard to find actual facts. And that seemes to be still he case. Now apparently I misunderstood the comment about the sign being tacked later on, but how do you know Minsky turned her down?

hvis 7y ago
"Both sides"? What wild accusations is the defending side throwing? The details are not 100% clear at this point, but there's a testimonial: https://pjmedia.com/instapundit/339725/ https://pjmedia.com/instapundit/339725/ Also: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marvin_Minsky#Epstein_interaction https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marvin_Minsky#Epstein_interact...
- hutzlibu 7y ago
  "Attention whore" to the women who wrote the blogpost. The claim that the sign was attached to the door later (yours not intentional, but on other comments, I saw it like this) The claim as a fact, that Minsky did not have sex with that girl. When this remains unclear so far.
  - hvis 7y ago
    OK, I'll give you that. But what actually sounds worse, "attention whore" or "creep, pedo and rape apologist"? The girl is likely going to get out of the scandal unscathed, so in my personal opinion she deserves whatever scorn she has received. And whether or not the sex happened, is probably irrelevant in the context of this discussion. After all, it wasn't public knowledge on Sep 12.
    - hutzlibu 7y ago
      Well, many people described RMS as a creep. And when the accusations are true, that for example he told women they should date him or he kills himself, than that is valid. He openly advocated against criminalization of pädophiles. That gets you the term pedo, even though not fair, it is playing with fire. And if it was indeed a case rape, in the sense of exploitation of a minor by minsky, who felt the rush of lust, which the other sides asume, than he is a rape apologist, if he says the most likeley scenario is, that she presented her as "willing", as this is, like I said, the common rape defence. But like I said, I allmost don't know any actual facts, except that the whole discussion was horrible, as most people did not know nor wanted to know facts, before judging.
      - hvis 7y ago
        > Well, many people described RMS as a creep. And when the accusations are true, that for example he told women they should date him or he kills himself, than that is valid. If. And was it "women" or "a woman"? Once? Maybe, like, 30-40 years ago? If happened, it was a shitty thing to do, but it shouldn't have any effect on a person's life decades later. Maybe consider the whole span of his career before readily accepting 3-4 vague rumors as something really damning. > He openly advocated against criminalization of pädophiles. That gets you the term pedo, even though not fair, it is playing with fire. True. But that's been known for years. And stating one's opinion once on a personal blog is not a crime. > But like I said, I allmost don't know any actual facts, except that the whole discussion was horrible, as most people did not know nor wanted to know facts, before judging. It's unfair to conclude "everybody behaved badly" and shrug when only one side is paying the price. Espesially since the choice to move the "discourse" to the social media plaforms (inhabited by very different people) has been made by the original accuser.

hutzlibu 7y ago

Also "he was arguing against using the term "sexual assault" because its legal definition is very different from the everyday connotation" He did quite more than a semantic argument, by saying "more than willing"

hvis 7y ago
> more than willing Who said that and when?
- hutzlibu 7y ago
  Ok, slightly misquoted from the head. "but the most plausible scenario is that she presented herself to him as entirely willing. " Is the quote from EMS I mean. The one who started all this.
  - hvis 7y ago
    It was a guess. And not an entirely implausible one. Yes, apparently some people have an extremely emotional reaction to seeing the word "willing" anywhere near the topic of sexual exploitation, but that's not a good enough reason to break out the torches full-on. Especially in an academic environment (where people are supposed to be able to think first).