5 ms·

At some point people need to wake up and realize they actually have very little control over what the government is doing. How long have we been talking about

At some point people need to wake up and realize they actually have very little control over what the government is doing. How long have we been talking about fixing healthcare? 20 years now? Nothing changes. And Obamacare was not a fix, just a way to shut up the population. How long have we been demanding an end to endless wars? How long have we been demanding actual action on climate change? What happened when crimes of the government are exposed by Assange and Snowden? We punish the whistleblowers! What was the end result of the Panama papers? Nothing. What about the elite being engaged in pedophilia on a massive scale? What’s that, Epstein committed suicide and the prison staff won’t cooperate in an investigation? Carry on fine citizen, nothing to see here. None of these things will change because the elite are enjoying the status quo. Now proceed fighting amongst yourselves over <insert social wedge issue here>.

davidw 7y ago
To accomplish those things, you'd need to elect people who want to do that. Good luck with how the Senate is elected, and the electoral college. It's not "the elites", it's who people are voting for.
zaroth 7y ago
Watching you edit this, this went from a rant I thought it might be worth responding to, to flame bait. I hate the defeatist attitude and rewriting history as if there hasn’t actually been incredible progress on so, so many fronts. There are interesting and important discussions to be had here, but not from this starting point.
- freejulian85 7y ago
  Perhaps you can start by naming some progress that has been made? I see very little.
  - tathougies 7y ago
    Poverty is at an all-time low worldwide: https://www.cnbc.com/2018/09/19/world-bank-global-poverty-rate-drops-to-record-low.html https://www.cnbc.com/2018/09/19/world-bank-global-poverty-ra... Crime is at an all-time low: https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2018-02-12/pssst-crime-may-be-near-an-all-time-low https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2018-02-12/pssst-... There are fewer hungry people today than before: https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2015/06/01/411265021/there-are-200-million-fewer-hungry-people-than-25-years-ago https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2015/06/01/4112650.... In terms of warfare, the world is the most peaceful it's ever been (full-scale, high death count wars used to be fought every decade or so between major powers): https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2015/06/war-is-killing-fewer-people-than-ever-before/ https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2015/06/war-is-killing-fewer-... While true that, cumulatively speaking, the United States has pumped out the most greenhouse gas of any conutry, it is improving faster than other countries. In the past decade, the United States has cut 11% of it's GHG emissions: https://www.vox.com/energy-and-environment/2019/4/24/18512804/climate-change-united-states-china-emissions https://www.vox.com/energy-and-environment/2019/4/24/1851280... https://www.epa.gov/newsreleases/data-shows-decrease-us-greenhouse-gas-emissions-during-trumps-first-year-office https://www.epa.gov/newsreleases/data-shows-decrease-us-gree...
    - smcg 7y ago
      Just because things are better now does not mean that they are good. Ask the poor, hungry, and war-torn if they think things are fine, there are millions of them. https://www.currentaffairs.org/2018/06/better-does-not-mean-good https://www.currentaffairs.org/2018/06/better-does-not-mean-...
      - tathougies 7y ago
        You are changing the goalposts. Please stop. The comment did not ask me to cite statistics claiming that the world is perfect. It merely asked for citations to statistics indicating the world is making progress I responded by offering solid data naming several metrics indicating that many outcomes that people find desirable (less poverty, less hunger, etc) are indeed closer to being achieved today than before. By definition, if something is getting better, it was not perfect (which is what you are asking for), so nowhere in my claim did I say or imply anything about the world being 'good'. On a separate note: We shouldn't use ill-defined terms like 'good'. There's no objective definition of what a 'good' world would look like. For example, many philosophers have argued the world is indeed good, despite the existence of all kinds of pestulences, plagues, and natural disasters. The key in understanding them would be understanding in what sense they use the word 'good'.
aalleavitch 7y ago
The realization by the masses that they have no control over their own lives is the progenitor of revolution. Do the beneficiaries of the status quo understand the resentment they are building? History has shown they seldom do until it is too late.
rrggrr 7y ago
No, no, no, no. Most decisions that impact your life in the US start at the city level. You CAN get involved and make a difference. It all starts there. Don't check out.
- freejulian85 7y ago
  Are you kidding me?! Here in Chicago we have enormous financial problems and every year that goes by brings us further away from even attempting to fix those problems. The streets are falling apart, crimes go unsolved, pollution goes unpunished. The candidates for mayor are always first chosen by the elite, then put on stage for the public to select. It’s a joke. If anything, it’s even easier for the powerful elite to control local governments. Look at all the polluted water flowing through lead pipes across the country — what’s happening about that again? Excuse me, time to print some money and give it to the banks in another nightly “repo operation”.
  - notfromhere 7y ago
    You probably don't remember Chicago in the 90s if you think things are getting worse.
    - freejulian85 7y ago
      The improvement in Chicago is due to people fleeing government subsidized suburbia.
      - bilbo0s 7y ago
        Not to put too fine a point on it, but I think this is a good illustration of the news dynamic. Everyone has their own opinion. Everyone lives in a world where "everyone I know agrees with me on this!" Everyone is stressed because maybe some others disagree. And then we all fall into a pattern of engaging in almost meaningless arguments about these issues with each other. Causing even more stress. I think what the above exchange demonstrates is that unfortunately, "politics", or whatever you want to call it, really is stressful and contentious to the point of being dangerous to society even at the local level. It's amazing how big this problem is.
eyo2019 7y ago
In America, we all bitch about politics, give up, and wonder why things suck. Meanwhile people are protesting quite vigorously, in HK, Paris, all over the Middle East a few years ago, etc. If we want the change we're looking for, we need to get in the streets and disrupt daily life for everyone until we collectively get what we are demanding.
- grenoire 7y ago
  America is just way bigger than any of those countries/cities; and we also know that, historically, American protestors have had significant difficulties organising themselves in a manner that is representative of the interests of the people who they have managed to rally.
bigYahnz 7y ago
Start doling out punishments worthy for such offenses and they will stop? End lineages. Publicly. The behavior will cease.

davidw 7y ago

To accomplish those things, you'd need to elect people who want to do that. Good luck with how the Senate is elected, and the electoral college. It's not "the elites", it's who people are voting for.

zaroth 7y ago

Watching you edit this, this went from a rant I thought it might be worth responding to, to flame bait. I hate the defeatist attitude and rewriting history as if there hasn’t actually been incredible progress on so, so many fronts. There are interesting and important discussions to be had here, but not from this starting point.

freejulian85 7y ago
Perhaps you can start by naming some progress that has been made? I see very little.
- tathougies 7y ago
  Poverty is at an all-time low worldwide: https://www.cnbc.com/2018/09/19/world-bank-global-poverty-rate-drops-to-record-low.html https://www.cnbc.com/2018/09/19/world-bank-global-poverty-ra... Crime is at an all-time low: https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2018-02-12/pssst-crime-may-be-near-an-all-time-low https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2018-02-12/pssst-... There are fewer hungry people today than before: https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2015/06/01/411265021/there-are-200-million-fewer-hungry-people-than-25-years-ago https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2015/06/01/4112650.... In terms of warfare, the world is the most peaceful it's ever been (full-scale, high death count wars used to be fought every decade or so between major powers): https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2015/06/war-is-killing-fewer-people-than-ever-before/ https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2015/06/war-is-killing-fewer-... While true that, cumulatively speaking, the United States has pumped out the most greenhouse gas of any conutry, it is improving faster than other countries. In the past decade, the United States has cut 11% of it's GHG emissions: https://www.vox.com/energy-and-environment/2019/4/24/18512804/climate-change-united-states-china-emissions https://www.vox.com/energy-and-environment/2019/4/24/1851280... https://www.epa.gov/newsreleases/data-shows-decrease-us-greenhouse-gas-emissions-during-trumps-first-year-office https://www.epa.gov/newsreleases/data-shows-decrease-us-gree...
  - smcg 7y ago
    Just because things are better now does not mean that they are good. Ask the poor, hungry, and war-torn if they think things are fine, there are millions of them. https://www.currentaffairs.org/2018/06/better-does-not-mean-good https://www.currentaffairs.org/2018/06/better-does-not-mean-...
    - tathougies 7y ago
      You are changing the goalposts. Please stop. The comment did not ask me to cite statistics claiming that the world is perfect. It merely asked for citations to statistics indicating the world is making progress I responded by offering solid data naming several metrics indicating that many outcomes that people find desirable (less poverty, less hunger, etc) are indeed closer to being achieved today than before. By definition, if something is getting better, it was not perfect (which is what you are asking for), so nowhere in my claim did I say or imply anything about the world being 'good'. On a separate note: We shouldn't use ill-defined terms like 'good'. There's no objective definition of what a 'good' world would look like. For example, many philosophers have argued the world is indeed good, despite the existence of all kinds of pestulences, plagues, and natural disasters. The key in understanding them would be understanding in what sense they use the word 'good'.

aalleavitch 7y ago

The realization by the masses that they have no control over their own lives is the progenitor of revolution. Do the beneficiaries of the status quo understand the resentment they are building? History has shown they seldom do until it is too late.

rrggrr 7y ago

No, no, no, no. Most decisions that impact your life in the US start at the city level. You CAN get involved and make a difference. It all starts there. Don't check out.

freejulian85 7y ago
Are you kidding me?! Here in Chicago we have enormous financial problems and every year that goes by brings us further away from even attempting to fix those problems. The streets are falling apart, crimes go unsolved, pollution goes unpunished. The candidates for mayor are always first chosen by the elite, then put on stage for the public to select. It’s a joke. If anything, it’s even easier for the powerful elite to control local governments. Look at all the polluted water flowing through lead pipes across the country — what’s happening about that again? Excuse me, time to print some money and give it to the banks in another nightly “repo operation”.
- notfromhere 7y ago
  You probably don't remember Chicago in the 90s if you think things are getting worse.
  - freejulian85 7y ago
    The improvement in Chicago is due to people fleeing government subsidized suburbia.
    - bilbo0s 7y ago
      Not to put too fine a point on it, but I think this is a good illustration of the news dynamic. Everyone has their own opinion. Everyone lives in a world where "everyone I know agrees with me on this!" Everyone is stressed because maybe some others disagree. And then we all fall into a pattern of engaging in almost meaningless arguments about these issues with each other. Causing even more stress. I think what the above exchange demonstrates is that unfortunately, "politics", or whatever you want to call it, really is stressful and contentious to the point of being dangerous to society even at the local level. It's amazing how big this problem is.

eyo2019 7y ago

In America, we all bitch about politics, give up, and wonder why things suck. Meanwhile people are protesting quite vigorously, in HK, Paris, all over the Middle East a few years ago, etc. If we want the change we're looking for, we need to get in the streets and disrupt daily life for everyone until we collectively get what we are demanding.

grenoire 7y ago
America is just way bigger than any of those countries/cities; and we also know that, historically, American protestors have had significant difficulties organising themselves in a manner that is representative of the interests of the people who they have managed to rally.

bigYahnz 7y ago

Start doling out punishments worthy for such offenses and they will stop? End lineages. Publicly. The behavior will cease.