4 ms·

People shouldn't bring it up? Just because they build up doesn't mean they're not legitimate grievances, and I don't see rms changing one bit. Responses alway

People shouldn't bring it up? Just because they build up doesn't mean they're not legitimate grievances, and I don't see rms changing one bit. Responses always seem out of proportion because media coverage creates attention and makes people reconsider longstanding issues. That might seem like a manufactured mob, but it isn't, it's just focusing all of the discontent that piled up over the years. We need better feedback loops, sure. But we also need people that listen, and RMS would fail there already. The one incident that got attention now stems from rms having absolutely no filter and no sense of what's appropriate to say at what time and additionally seemingly prioritising his dead friends honor over believing victims even if you want to argue him being just about technically correct by using specific wording (there is no fucking way you are oblivious to people being coerced into sex this visiting Epsteins Island, just none). This is not a one off thing. When RMS does his church of emacs skit and keeps pointing at a young woman in the audience whenever he says the word virgin, when RMS asks someone their name, if they work at MIT and then if they'd like to date right away, when people literally cover their offices in plants because Stallman doesn't like them... this guy should have been told to be better or get the fuck out years ago, but instead because he's adored by nerds all over people put up with his childish insistence on doing things exactly his way, using his personal redefinition of words (fuck rms for shitting on singular they) and leaving his behavior unchallenged because you know he'll throw a huge tantrum if you don't.

Frondo 7y ago
Heh, I think you just uncovered a bit of hidden psychology I hadn't realized before. The part about "people put up with his childish insistence on doing things exactly his way" probably comes off as aspirational for a ton of people without realizing it. In fact, stallman hits a lot of things I'd say are probably aspirational: considered as a programming god (despite not really being involved in the technical side of the industry for at least a few decades), the ability to say whatever you want and get a pass because of who you are, getting acclaim for being an inflexible curmudgeon instead of being told to get with the times or adapt your core ideas to a changing world...who wouldn't want that kind of pass in society? Total speculation, but it makes me wonder if stallman is the geek's version of Steinbeck's "temporarily embarrassed millionaire"; that people want to see themselves not as members of a society, but just undiscovered genius misanthropes whose greatness hasn't yet been recognized. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
- craigsmansion 7y ago
  > being told to get with the times or adapt your core ideas to a changing world Because getting with the times and adapting to a changing world require proprietary software and the dilution of privacy? > genius misanthropes Yes, rms the misanthrope... Maybe stick to "kewl stealth mode startups", or at least try to make it less obvious you're just looking for excuses to dislike the man. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  - Frondo 7y ago
    He's not gonna fuck you, my dude
craigsmansion 7y ago
> (there is no fucking way you are oblivious to people being coerced into sex this visiting Epsteins Island, just none). That seems a particular American hangup. If people would visit the mansion of a skin-magazine tycoon on invitation, and one of the many women around there would approach them, very few would assume this was a genuine romantic interest, but there would be little reason to doubt if they were being set up for blackmail instead of straight-up prostitution. Whether you are revolted by prostitution, or whether you would find it inappropriate for an older man to sleep with a significantly younger woman doesn't matter. > (fuck rms for shitting on singular they) [..] you know he'll throw a huge tantrum if you don't. Terrible thing that, people throwing tantrums when others don't see things their way.
- sascha_sl 7y ago
  1. The point is that an integer person would know to deny, because you're potentially breaking the law in the one way where being oblivious doesn't matter and the "potentially" is quite likely. 2. I see no equivalence here. RMS will go out of his way to misgender people. He might not think that's a big deal, but that's no excuse. Watch any interview with the guy, even if he's talking to someone who does not subscribe to calling it "GNU/Linux" he will insist, every time, for it to be corrected. That's not just being insistent, that's actually - dare i say it - orwellian. He also likes to draw the JBP "oh god no i have been misinterpreted" line. Like, when I say "Hacker news users are techbros." and someone asks me "why do you think all hacker news users are techbros", I can turn around and say I never said ALL I meant a very specific subset why are you misinterpreting my words you horrible horrible person aren't you supposed to be better this horrible tribalism. He does it in his per article twice (using the phrase "without inquiring if that's what I believe")
  - Frondo 7y ago
    I've said it before, but it's worth repeating: stallman isn't a pedant. he just uses the tool of pedantry to evade, play defense, or dodge critique; his goal doesn't seem to be clarity, but moving the goalposts when someone calls him out. A pedant won't cleave to his own private definitions when they suit him ("You said drm, which I call digital restrictions management"), common language definitions when they suit him ("when someone says sexual assault, we hear assault and think violence"), and technical jargon when they suit him ("it's GNU/linux"). There's no seeking of understanding there, just someone being pushy with definitions however it suits them.
concordDance 7y ago
> Responses always seem out of proportion because media coverage creates attention and makes people reconsider longstanding issues. Responses are out of proportion because the media hugely distorts and misleads on every single topic in service of the goal of getting more shares. They'll always try and give a view that is as interesting/outrageous/satisfying as possible, using phrasing and selective ommissions. Then people hear those stories and relay the insinuations rather than the actual reported facts (news media is generally very good at conveying X while only literally stating Y, Vice was unusually crude and shoddy this time). The post I am replying to is an excellent example of the end result of this game of telephone. > believing victims He didn't disbelieved them in the quote. > there is no fucking way you are oblivious to people being coerced into sex this visiting Epsteins Island, just none On what basis are you saying this? > When RMS does his church of emacs skit and keeps pointing at a young woman in the audience whenever he says the word virgin This is the kind of thing where it's very easy for stories and memories to get distorted. > when people literally cover their offices in plants because Stallman doesn't like them Yet another one of the hugely exaggerated rumours...
- sascha_sl 7y ago
  oh fuck off dang please fucking ban me this techbro shit is getting to me

Frondo 7y ago

Heh, I think you just uncovered a bit of hidden psychology I hadn't realized before. The part about "people put up with his childish insistence on doing things exactly his way" probably comes off as aspirational for a ton of people without realizing it. In fact, stallman hits a lot of things I'd say are probably aspirational: considered as a programming god (despite not really being involved in the technical side of the industry for at least a few decades), the ability to say whatever you want and get a pass because of who you are, getting acclaim for being an inflexible curmudgeon instead of being told to get with the times or adapt your core ideas to a changing world...who wouldn't want that kind of pass in society? Total speculation, but it makes me wonder if stallman is the geek's version of Steinbeck's "temporarily embarrassed millionaire"; that people want to see themselves not as members of a society, but just undiscovered genius misanthropes whose greatness hasn't yet been recognized. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

craigsmansion 7y ago
> being told to get with the times or adapt your core ideas to a changing world Because getting with the times and adapting to a changing world require proprietary software and the dilution of privacy? > genius misanthropes Yes, rms the misanthrope... Maybe stick to "kewl stealth mode startups", or at least try to make it less obvious you're just looking for excuses to dislike the man. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
- Frondo 7y ago
  He's not gonna fuck you, my dude

craigsmansion 7y ago

> (there is no fucking way you are oblivious to people being coerced into sex this visiting Epsteins Island, just none). That seems a particular American hangup. If people would visit the mansion of a skin-magazine tycoon on invitation, and one of the many women around there would approach them, very few would assume this was a genuine romantic interest, but there would be little reason to doubt if they were being set up for blackmail instead of straight-up prostitution. Whether you are revolted by prostitution, or whether you would find it inappropriate for an older man to sleep with a significantly younger woman doesn't matter. > (fuck rms for shitting on singular they) [..] you know he'll throw a huge tantrum if you don't. Terrible thing that, people throwing tantrums when others don't see things their way.

sascha_sl 7y ago
1. The point is that an integer person would know to deny, because you're potentially breaking the law in the one way where being oblivious doesn't matter and the "potentially" is quite likely. 2. I see no equivalence here. RMS will go out of his way to misgender people. He might not think that's a big deal, but that's no excuse. Watch any interview with the guy, even if he's talking to someone who does not subscribe to calling it "GNU/Linux" he will insist, every time, for it to be corrected. That's not just being insistent, that's actually - dare i say it - orwellian. He also likes to draw the JBP "oh god no i have been misinterpreted" line. Like, when I say "Hacker news users are techbros." and someone asks me "why do you think all hacker news users are techbros", I can turn around and say I never said ALL I meant a very specific subset why are you misinterpreting my words you horrible horrible person aren't you supposed to be better this horrible tribalism. He does it in his per article twice (using the phrase "without inquiring if that's what I believe")
- Frondo 7y ago
  I've said it before, but it's worth repeating: stallman isn't a pedant. he just uses the tool of pedantry to evade, play defense, or dodge critique; his goal doesn't seem to be clarity, but moving the goalposts when someone calls him out. A pedant won't cleave to his own private definitions when they suit him ("You said drm, which I call digital restrictions management"), common language definitions when they suit him ("when someone says sexual assault, we hear assault and think violence"), and technical jargon when they suit him ("it's GNU/linux"). There's no seeking of understanding there, just someone being pushy with definitions however it suits them.

concordDance 7y ago

> Responses always seem out of proportion because media coverage creates attention and makes people reconsider longstanding issues. Responses are out of proportion because the media hugely distorts and misleads on every single topic in service of the goal of getting more shares. They'll always try and give a view that is as interesting/outrageous/satisfying as possible, using phrasing and selective ommissions. Then people hear those stories and relay the insinuations rather than the actual reported facts (news media is generally very good at conveying X while only literally stating Y, Vice was unusually crude and shoddy this time). The post I am replying to is an excellent example of the end result of this game of telephone. > believing victims He didn't disbelieved them in the quote. > there is no fucking way you are oblivious to people being coerced into sex this visiting Epsteins Island, just none On what basis are you saying this? > When RMS does his church of emacs skit and keeps pointing at a young woman in the audience whenever he says the word virgin This is the kind of thing where it's very easy for stories and memories to get distorted. > when people literally cover their offices in plants because Stallman doesn't like them Yet another one of the hugely exaggerated rumours...

sascha_sl 7y ago
oh fuck off dang please fucking ban me this techbro shit is getting to me