4 ms·

Where do you think his insecurity about his physical appearance might otherwise come from?

mc32 7y ago
People within their group or even people of the majority pop in near homogenous countries still have all kinds of insecurities. If those people grew up in other societies outside their group they may or may not have different insecurities, but we can’t know. Interestingly the USSR used to be known for limb lengthening surgery, although I heard it was very much in a Soviet tradition.
imustbeevil 7y ago
Just to clarify this position, do you believe that insecurity about physical appearance is the result of patriarchy and not a hundred thousand year genetic predisposition to find desirable mating partners for survival? I'm insecure about my looks because I'm happier when I see attractive people and I know I can't give other people that happiness.
- pjc50 7y ago
  > result of patriarchy and not a hundred thousand year genetic predisposition to find desirable mating partners for survival? What makes you think these two can be cleanly separated?
  - imustbeevil 7y ago
    I believe that's my position. If the social structure of humanity is based on genetic necessity, I wouldn't think to frame it as any one group of individuals making decisions that harm others.
    - pjc50 7y ago
      I think people in these discussions over-assume that patriarchal is consciously intentional. So we're confusedly agreeing? > The social structure that results is emergent, not designed. ... yes, and the undesigned structure that has emerged we are labelling "patriarchy". > the social structure of humanity is based on genetic necessity ... requires a lot more unpacking. Is this asserting that culture doesn't exist and material conditions are irrelevant? All behaviour is only genetic? I don't think that's what you're claiming, but I can't parse it otherwise.
      - imustbeevil 7y ago
        > So we're confusedly agreeing? Definitely. It feels like there's a difference in our interpretation of the context of the word "patriarchy". I have most often heard it used as a condemnation of a group of individuals who are also disadvantaged by the social structure. Similar to the way "idealism" is commonly used to disparage positive future thinking. I would sure rather a society where no one has to feel like they're in a fight for survival where the only way to win is someone else losing.
        htfu 7y ago
        The same sorta pattern repeats a lot. Even a lot of quite toxic MRA stuff is basically dudes redescovering core feminist concepts but then not seeing the forest for the trees. Patriarchy hurts men too!
toomim 7y ago
I don't think he is insecure. The author admits that she barely talked to him during the time he wanted the surgery. It seems equally likely that he was secure while wanting the height extensions to get a leg up in life. You don't have to be insecure to want something better for yourself.

mc32 7y ago

People within their group or even people of the majority pop in near homogenous countries still have all kinds of insecurities. If those people grew up in other societies outside their group they may or may not have different insecurities, but we can’t know. Interestingly the USSR used to be known for limb lengthening surgery, although I heard it was very much in a Soviet tradition.

imustbeevil 7y ago

Just to clarify this position, do you believe that insecurity about physical appearance is the result of patriarchy and not a hundred thousand year genetic predisposition to find desirable mating partners for survival? I'm insecure about my looks because I'm happier when I see attractive people and I know I can't give other people that happiness.

pjc50 7y ago
> result of patriarchy and not a hundred thousand year genetic predisposition to find desirable mating partners for survival? What makes you think these two can be cleanly separated?
- imustbeevil 7y ago
  I believe that's my position. If the social structure of humanity is based on genetic necessity, I wouldn't think to frame it as any one group of individuals making decisions that harm others.
  - pjc50 7y ago
    I think people in these discussions over-assume that patriarchal is consciously intentional. So we're confusedly agreeing? > The social structure that results is emergent, not designed. ... yes, and the undesigned structure that has emerged we are labelling "patriarchy". > the social structure of humanity is based on genetic necessity ... requires a lot more unpacking. Is this asserting that culture doesn't exist and material conditions are irrelevant? All behaviour is only genetic? I don't think that's what you're claiming, but I can't parse it otherwise.
    - imustbeevil 7y ago
      > So we're confusedly agreeing? Definitely. It feels like there's a difference in our interpretation of the context of the word "patriarchy". I have most often heard it used as a condemnation of a group of individuals who are also disadvantaged by the social structure. Similar to the way "idealism" is commonly used to disparage positive future thinking. I would sure rather a society where no one has to feel like they're in a fight for survival where the only way to win is someone else losing.
      - htfu 7y ago
        The same sorta pattern repeats a lot. Even a lot of quite toxic MRA stuff is basically dudes redescovering core feminist concepts but then not seeing the forest for the trees. Patriarchy hurts men too!

toomim 7y ago

I don't think he is insecure. The author admits that she barely talked to him during the time he wanted the surgery. It seems equally likely that he was secure while wanting the height extensions to get a leg up in life. You don't have to be insecure to want something better for yourself.