6 ms·

I think the root of all of this is we use the same mental circuits when condemning sexual and hygienic misconduct. Someone called him creepy for publicly eatin

by zby 7y ago

I think the root of all of this is we use the same mental circuits when condemning sexual and hygienic misconduct. Someone called him creepy for publicly eating something from his foot - then in other circumstances the 'creepy' label was interpreted to be related to sex.

pseudalopex 7y ago
No, people have called him creepy for asking out MIT undergraduates and defending adults having sex with children.
- lostjohnny 7y ago
  > people have called him creepy for asking out MIT undergraduates So every male at MIT is creepy then. > defending adults having sex with children. He was just arguing about the science available at the moment and even links the study on his website (everything is still there, he is not hiding anything)
  - rayiner 7y ago
    > So every male at MIT is creepy then. Well, yes.
    - lostjohnny 7y ago
      Remove them all then. Where's the outrage when we need it?
    - aortega 7y ago
      >> So every male at MIT is creepy then. >Well, yes. This is exactly the problem here. You, and many like you, are basically demonizing all men in MIT. For you, all men are guilty of being men and thus they should be removed. Its incredible that society tolerates such discrimination. This is beyond fascism.
      - lostjohnny 7y ago
        > You, and many like you, are basically demonizing all men in MIT I was just being sarcastic and you are just overreacting. If asking a girl out is sexual assault, then all men are sexual predators. It's true even for girls, they ask men out, it's 2019 and I'm 43, I've seen much worse in my life than "asking a girl out". BTW, they can still say no, it's ok to say no.
    - dang 7y ago
      Surely you don't think it's ok to do this here?
      - lostjohnny 7y ago
        What I think it doesn't matter. He was arguing using the science of the time. Darwin believed that "males are more evolutionarily advanced than females" and manyany anthropologists contemporary to Darwin concluded that "women's brains were analogous to those of animals," which had "overdeveloped" sense organs "to the detriment of the brain" Should we judge them for being wrong at the time, without knowing it?
  - pseudalopex 7y ago
    Most men at MIT aren't asking out people less than half their age.
    - lostjohnny 7y ago
      Most men at MIT are not RMS and nobody create legends on them. Because nobody knows them. But if it is creepy for RMS, it is for anyone else who did it. Where is the outrage? Half their age is perfectly legit if one is 25 and the other is 50. You should be more precise.
      - smsm42 7y ago
        And that happened in the 80s so RMS was around 30. So it's more like 30-year-old asking out 21-year-old.
  - Frondo 7y ago
    I don't believe every highly-esteemed man (whether a professor or someone with another well-regarded position) is asking undergrads out. I believe most of the men in positions of some power and acclaim at MIT aren't asking undergrads out, and yes, those that are shouldn't be in that position of power and/or acclaim.
    - lostjohnny 7y ago
      > I don't believe every highly-esteemed man is asking undergrads out Seriously? Epstein was really well-esteemed. Weinstein was very well-esteemed Polansky was very well-esteemed Ethan Zuckerman (MIT) was very well-esteemed Stallman did nothing of the sort. They are just legends built around a weird guy who comes out creepy when tries to be friendly. And they started because he was not popular in college but usually right People hate the outcasts that expose their faults in public It ruins their projected image It hurts their giant ego BTW: I've been young and creepy sometimes to women, they've been creepy to me (one even stalked me and my girlfriend), most of the time we've been cool around each other. "She said, he said" is a very bad way to evaluate a person in an objective way. "They told me that one time" it's the beginning of everyone's life, when you are 66 and lived the life Stallman has lived, that one time, repeated over and over, becomes almost a truth. It's like John Lennon saying "The best drummer in the world? Ringo is not even the best drummer in The Beatles" Or Ozzy Osbourne eating bats Or Van Halen's "no brown M&M's" rule
    - smsm42 7y ago
      He has never been a professor. And its certainly news for me that it is prohibited for males of highly regarded position to ask out females (which aren't dependent on them in professional or any other capacity and he's not doing it in a workplace or in other inappropriate environment). > yes, those that are shouldn't be in that position of power and/or acclaim. Why not? What's bad in asking a female student out? Is it some sort of crime for males to date females? Is it something only low-level males not occupying any positions allowed to do? It is bad if someone tries to use their power to coerce a female to a date, but if he just asks, and the female is not dependent on him in any way and is free to refuse if she doesn't find him attractive - what exactly is the problem here?
- zby 7y ago
  "defending adults having sex with children" - this again - if I accuse you of having sex with children - then everyone who defends you is a creep? We don't know if Minsky had sex with Guiffre - from her deposition we only know that she was directed to seduce him that was (one of) Stallmans point.
  - pseudalopex 7y ago
    Stallman's notes about pedophilia have nothing to do with Minsky and Giuffre.
    - underdown 7y ago
      So, wrongthink is what we are convicting him of? I disagree generally with his statement but reasonable people can disagree in a free society.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
- NateEag 7y ago
  I believe the creepiness at MIT was not "asking undergraduates out" - it was threatening to kill himself if the undergraduate did not accept. If true, that is deeply disturbing behavior.
  - pseudalopex 7y ago
    I agree. Some people dismiss it as a joke, though.
    - smsm42 7y ago
      Which we know for a fact it was, seeing as the data didn't happen and RMS is still alive.
      - NateEag 7y ago
        People are not perfectly consistent. Not even RMS. It seems more likely to me he made the threat legitimately, but chose not to follow through. Do you have evidence for your assertion that it was a joke? The woman who experienced it certainly didn't perceive it as one.
        smsm42 7y ago
        > It seems more likely to me he made the threat legitimately If you genuinely think RMS was considering suicide over a date refusal, your likelyhood calibrations way off. He's weird, but he's not raving maniac. It is ok to exaggerate a little sometimes for the sake of argument, maybe, but really, there's bound of how far the credulity can be stretched. > Do you have evidence for your assertion that it was a joke? I just said it in my previous comment. Also, I've seen people. Virtually nobody, excepting gravely mentally ill people that are most likely already on heavy meds and being treated by psychiatrists, commits suicide over a date refusal from a random female. > The woman who experienced it certainly didn't perceive it as one. Not getting the joke is a common occurrence. I sometimes not get the jokes, even by professional comedians. And RMS never been a professional in this, so some rate of failure is expected. Making a huge deal out of it almost 40 years after it happened (to zero harm for anyone involved) is the insane part here. Especially as this seems to be the only documented episode of supposed myriads of harassment incidents RMS is supposedly famous for.
- tdsamardzhiev 7y ago
  > I believe the creepiness at MIT was not "asking undergraduates out" - it was threatening to kill himself of the undergraduate did not accept. I've also done this, please don't get me fired. Well, I was 15 at the time, but perhaps still better socially adjusted than Stallman at 60.
- smsm42 7y ago
  > asking out MIT undergraduates Oh horror! How can a man be so depraved, so devoid of any common decency, so enthralled to his animalistic desires as to ask out a MIT undergraduate! Who'd even think such thing is possible in our enlightened time. We all thought we are way past MIT undergrads being asked out, but here we go again.

by zby 7y ago

pseudalopex 7y ago

No, people have called him creepy for asking out MIT undergraduates and defending adults having sex with children.

lostjohnny 7y ago
> people have called him creepy for asking out MIT undergraduates So every male at MIT is creepy then. > defending adults having sex with children. He was just arguing about the science available at the moment and even links the study on his website (everything is still there, he is not hiding anything)
- rayiner 7y ago
  > So every male at MIT is creepy then. Well, yes.
  - lostjohnny 7y ago
    Remove them all then. Where's the outrage when we need it?
  - aortega 7y ago
    >> So every male at MIT is creepy then. >Well, yes. This is exactly the problem here. You, and many like you, are basically demonizing all men in MIT. For you, all men are guilty of being men and thus they should be removed. Its incredible that society tolerates such discrimination. This is beyond fascism.
    - lostjohnny 7y ago
      > You, and many like you, are basically demonizing all men in MIT I was just being sarcastic and you are just overreacting. If asking a girl out is sexual assault, then all men are sexual predators. It's true even for girls, they ask men out, it's 2019 and I'm 43, I've seen much worse in my life than "asking a girl out". BTW, they can still say no, it's ok to say no.
  - dang 7y ago
    Surely you don't think it's ok to do this here?
    - lostjohnny 7y ago
      What I think it doesn't matter. He was arguing using the science of the time. Darwin believed that "males are more evolutionarily advanced than females" and manyany anthropologists contemporary to Darwin concluded that "women's brains were analogous to those of animals," which had "overdeveloped" sense organs "to the detriment of the brain" Should we judge them for being wrong at the time, without knowing it?
- pseudalopex 7y ago
  Most men at MIT aren't asking out people less than half their age.
  - lostjohnny 7y ago
    Most men at MIT are not RMS and nobody create legends on them. Because nobody knows them. But if it is creepy for RMS, it is for anyone else who did it. Where is the outrage? Half their age is perfectly legit if one is 25 and the other is 50. You should be more precise.
    - smsm42 7y ago
      And that happened in the 80s so RMS was around 30. So it's more like 30-year-old asking out 21-year-old.
- Frondo 7y ago
  I don't believe every highly-esteemed man (whether a professor or someone with another well-regarded position) is asking undergrads out. I believe most of the men in positions of some power and acclaim at MIT aren't asking undergrads out, and yes, those that are shouldn't be in that position of power and/or acclaim.
  - lostjohnny 7y ago
    > I don't believe every highly-esteemed man is asking undergrads out Seriously? Epstein was really well-esteemed. Weinstein was very well-esteemed Polansky was very well-esteemed Ethan Zuckerman (MIT) was very well-esteemed Stallman did nothing of the sort. They are just legends built around a weird guy who comes out creepy when tries to be friendly. And they started because he was not popular in college but usually right People hate the outcasts that expose their faults in public It ruins their projected image It hurts their giant ego BTW: I've been young and creepy sometimes to women, they've been creepy to me (one even stalked me and my girlfriend), most of the time we've been cool around each other. "She said, he said" is a very bad way to evaluate a person in an objective way. "They told me that one time" it's the beginning of everyone's life, when you are 66 and lived the life Stallman has lived, that one time, repeated over and over, becomes almost a truth. It's like John Lennon saying "The best drummer in the world? Ringo is not even the best drummer in The Beatles" Or Ozzy Osbourne eating bats Or Van Halen's "no brown M&M's" rule
  - smsm42 7y ago
    He has never been a professor. And its certainly news for me that it is prohibited for males of highly regarded position to ask out females (which aren't dependent on them in professional or any other capacity and he's not doing it in a workplace or in other inappropriate environment). > yes, those that are shouldn't be in that position of power and/or acclaim. Why not? What's bad in asking a female student out? Is it some sort of crime for males to date females? Is it something only low-level males not occupying any positions allowed to do? It is bad if someone tries to use their power to coerce a female to a date, but if he just asks, and the female is not dependent on him in any way and is free to refuse if she doesn't find him attractive - what exactly is the problem here?
zby 7y ago
"defending adults having sex with children" - this again - if I accuse you of having sex with children - then everyone who defends you is a creep? We don't know if Minsky had sex with Guiffre - from her deposition we only know that she was directed to seduce him that was (one of) Stallmans point.
- pseudalopex 7y ago
  Stallman's notes about pedophilia have nothing to do with Minsky and Giuffre.
  - underdown 7y ago
    So, wrongthink is what we are convicting him of? I disagree generally with his statement but reasonable people can disagree in a free society.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
NateEag 7y ago
I believe the creepiness at MIT was not "asking undergraduates out" - it was threatening to kill himself if the undergraduate did not accept. If true, that is deeply disturbing behavior.
- pseudalopex 7y ago
  I agree. Some people dismiss it as a joke, though.
  - smsm42 7y ago
    Which we know for a fact it was, seeing as the data didn't happen and RMS is still alive.
    - NateEag 7y ago
      People are not perfectly consistent. Not even RMS. It seems more likely to me he made the threat legitimately, but chose not to follow through. Do you have evidence for your assertion that it was a joke? The woman who experienced it certainly didn't perceive it as one.
      - smsm42 7y ago
        > It seems more likely to me he made the threat legitimately If you genuinely think RMS was considering suicide over a date refusal, your likelyhood calibrations way off. He's weird, but he's not raving maniac. It is ok to exaggerate a little sometimes for the sake of argument, maybe, but really, there's bound of how far the credulity can be stretched. > Do you have evidence for your assertion that it was a joke? I just said it in my previous comment. Also, I've seen people. Virtually nobody, excepting gravely mentally ill people that are most likely already on heavy meds and being treated by psychiatrists, commits suicide over a date refusal from a random female. > The woman who experienced it certainly didn't perceive it as one. Not getting the joke is a common occurrence. I sometimes not get the jokes, even by professional comedians. And RMS never been a professional in this, so some rate of failure is expected. Making a huge deal out of it almost 40 years after it happened (to zero harm for anyone involved) is the insane part here. Especially as this seems to be the only documented episode of supposed myriads of harassment incidents RMS is supposedly famous for.
tdsamardzhiev 7y ago
> I believe the creepiness at MIT was not "asking undergraduates out" - it was threatening to kill himself of the undergraduate did not accept. I've also done this, please don't get me fired. Well, I was 15 at the time, but perhaps still better socially adjusted than Stallman at 60.
smsm42 7y ago
> asking out MIT undergraduates Oh horror! How can a man be so depraved, so devoid of any common decency, so enthralled to his animalistic desires as to ask out a MIT undergraduate! Who'd even think such thing is possible in our enlightened time. We all thought we are way past MIT undergrads being asked out, but here we go again.