3 ms·

I think this part of his emails could be constructed as that > We know that Giuffre was being coerced into sex -- by Epstein. She was being harmed. But the det

by josefx 7y ago

I think this part of his emails could be constructed as that > We know that Giuffre was being coerced into sex -- by Epstein. She was being harmed. But the details do affect whether, and to what extent, Minsky was responsible for that. Stallmans defense of Minsky is reasoning that he could have been an unknowing participant who wasn't aware of the lack of consent. His opinion on the age of consent is another matter: > Does it really? I think it is morally absurd to define "rape" in a way that depends on minor details such as which country it was in or whether the victim was 18 years old or 17. Source: https://pastebin.com/658yfLj5 https://pastebin.com/658yfLj5

bscphil 7y ago
This is not the most damning part of the email to me. I excerpted the part I thought most relevant here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21089394 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21089394
denton-scratch 7y ago
It's worth noting (again) that the age of consent at that time, in that place, was 16. I believe RMS is on record saying that he thinks the idea of a legal "age of consent" is a nonsense. It's entirely an arguable position that if two 16-year-olds have sex together, they have not necessarily raped one-another. He's saying that it's not the age that makes it rape, and that therefore the law is an ass. The law effectively defines consent as something that cannot legally be given by someone younger than X. Obviously the younger someone is, the less likely it is that they can give consent; RMS is complaining that the law gives X an arbitrary value. One can disagree with him, either with a proper argument, or simply by denouncing him; but it's not morally reprehensible for him to reason in that way.
- DanBC 7y ago
  > It's worth noting (again) that the age of consent at that time, in that place, was 16. Even for American's travelling to that country? Even for prostitution?
- bscphil 7y ago
  > It's worth noting (again) that the age of consent at that time, in that place, was 16. This is not a point I particularly care about, but it's worth pointing out that you are wrong, so far as I can tell. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ages_of_consent_in_North_America#Virgin_Islands_(United_States) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ages_of_consent_in_North_Ameri...
  - denton-scratch 7y ago
    I don't care much about it either, but thanks for the link. It seems there's a close-in-age exemption that wouldn't have applied in the Minsky case anyway.

by josefx 7y ago

bscphil 7y ago

This is not the most damning part of the email to me. I excerpted the part I thought most relevant here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21089394 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21089394

denton-scratch 7y ago

It's worth noting (again) that the age of consent at that time, in that place, was 16. I believe RMS is on record saying that he thinks the idea of a legal "age of consent" is a nonsense. It's entirely an arguable position that if two 16-year-olds have sex together, they have not necessarily raped one-another. He's saying that it's not the age that makes it rape, and that therefore the law is an ass. The law effectively defines consent as something that cannot legally be given by someone younger than X. Obviously the younger someone is, the less likely it is that they can give consent; RMS is complaining that the law gives X an arbitrary value. One can disagree with him, either with a proper argument, or simply by denouncing him; but it's not morally reprehensible for him to reason in that way.

DanBC 7y ago
> It's worth noting (again) that the age of consent at that time, in that place, was 16. Even for American's travelling to that country? Even for prostitution?
bscphil 7y ago
> It's worth noting (again) that the age of consent at that time, in that place, was 16. This is not a point I particularly care about, but it's worth pointing out that you are wrong, so far as I can tell. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ages_of_consent_in_North_America#Virgin_Islands_(United_States) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ages_of_consent_in_North_Ameri...
- denton-scratch 7y ago
  I don't care much about it either, but thanks for the link. It seems there's a close-in-age exemption that wouldn't have applied in the Minsky case anyway.