7 ms·

I've had "SJW" thrown at me a few good times. I wouldn't ever call someone a creep for not remembering. However if you interact with someone who identifies as n

by mnsc 7y ago

I've had "SJW" thrown at me a few good times. I wouldn't ever call someone a creep for not remembering. However if you interact with someone who identifies as non-binary and they tell you they would like to be addressed as "they" and you make a point to use the biologically closest pronoun while you also make sure to let them know that you believe there's only two distinct sexes/genders. I would call you/think of you as a disrespectful human being. Nothing more nothing less. But I you really try to remember, but can't overcome your programming (I do that often with my non-binary acquaintances, it's hard as fuck, but I guess I'm getting old as well ¯\_(ツ)_/¯) then you are a human being that tries to be respectful. And that's a good thing! So take a look in the mirror and try to see which one you are and ignore those disrespectful human beings that would call you a creep for not remembering.

stOneskull 7y ago
i wouldn't think you are being disrespectful for disagreeing that there are only two sexes. even if you were, then big whoop. you don't have to respect me. sometimes it seems like it's an endless boo-hoo until we're all winston smiths, scared to even think (and the thought of that really offends me).
- mnsc 7y ago
  > you don't have to respect me Thank you for that free pass! I think you are a full on idiot that is void of empathy and is so full of yourself only because you read 1984 (I bet you've read atlas shrugged too and was "mind blown"). Your paranoia and tendency to see boogey mans is what's destroying the world, it's sure as fuck not me who say "let's try to respect each others wishes". You would do best if you didn't voice another butt stupid opinion until you talked to at least one intergender/trans/non-binary person which I assume you don't have. See, that's how you disagree in a disrespectful way. You absolute wanker.
x220 7y ago
I think that respect is something earned and is not to be extended to everyone without distinction. If you think everyone should be called by their preferred pronouns, that's not respect.
- mnsc 7y ago
  > If you think everyone should be called by their preferred pronouns, that's not respect How is that not respecting others?
  - Hitton 7y ago
    Will you respect my pronouns if say my pronouns are God/God/Gods? Some people might tolerate it, but for most I doubt. zie,sie,ey,ve,tey,e,xe,ze,ne,shi, furries and similar try to use fae, plant, bun, star, void. And that's just few examples. Most people will reasonably draw a line somewhere. Some people just decide to draw line behind he/she and maybe also consider if the person appears vaguely male/female. One could also make claim that choosing some ridiculous new pronoun is disrespectful of others. People were content with he/she for thousands of years and some could consider inventing new ones similar to 1984's Newspeak.
    - mnsc 7y ago
      > One could also make claim that choosing some ridiculous new pronoun is disrespectful of others. Of course, but that hypothetical person who put forward this claim doesn't subscribe to the generally accepted definition of respect so I don't see why we should discuss that person.
      - sooheon 7y ago
        Is there an approved list of pronouns it is OK to choose from?
        mnsc 7y ago
        I don't understand where this question comes from?
        sooheon 7y ago
        Since you said a hypothetical person who wants to be called by a ridiculous pronoun doesn't share your definition of respect, I'm wondering if you have an opinion on which desired pronouns are repectable and which aren't.
jdnenej 7y ago
Stallman has a post about how he refuses to use the word they because it's not traditionally correct English and has choses to invent his own word "per" to refer to someone without specifying gender. This seems acceptable to me. Stallman has always been weird with word choice but I see no bad intent here.
- mnsc 7y ago
  > This seems acceptable to me And to other's that seems like he doesn't respect the wishes of others and instead behaves in a way that is logically sound in his own mind. That's not a crime. Just a disrespectful way of behaving that generates antagonists instead of friends. Side note: "per" is very funny to me as a swede since it's a super common traditionally(exclusively?) male name.
  - hdfbdtbcdg 7y ago
    Didn't Swedish add a new pronoun for gender neutral? I.e. exactly what RMS does?
    - mnsc 7y ago
      No, not really. We added "hen" who is short for "han/hon" ("he/she"). Some people want "hen" as pronoun as well which I think is awkward. I've only met nb people here who wants to be called "den", I guess from english "they". That is really hard for my programming since "den" is commonly used to refer to inanimate objects. It seem so inhuman to me that I have a really hard time respecting that. I try though. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
      - hdfbdtbcdg 7y ago
        He and she (and apparently now they) are subject pronouns as are han/hon... What is hen if not a subject pronoun?
        mnsc 7y ago
username90 7y ago
A person with lots of integrity wont change what they say easily. If they don't believe that there are more than two genders, then for them to use a third pronoun with a straight face they would have to rebuild their entire worldview around gender. Of course that would be a good thing, but doing that would take a lot of work and not something you can get them to do in the few seconds it takes for a conversation to get awkward. I'd be more wary of the people with low integrity who just say what others want to hear, they change their speech but doesn't actually change their behavior and will still discriminate and undermine groups even when forced to change their speech pattern. Stallman seems to me like a person with an extremely high level of integrity, if a normal person believe that voluntary pedophilia is fine they would just shut up and join the mob but not Stallman. He faced his world view head on and no longer believe that pedophilia is fine, and we can be pretty sure that he actually changed since he doesn't buckle to pressure. The same can not be said about most politicians and other conventional leaders.
- mnsc 7y ago
  > I'd be more wary of the people with low integrity who just say what others want to hear, they change their speech but doesn't actually change their behavior and will still discriminate and undermine groups even when forced to change their speech pattern. Yep, they're the worst in my book as well.
- intarga 7y ago
  > they would have to rebuild their entire worldview around gender I don't really understand this. When I'm talking to an adopted child, I have no trouble calling their parents their parents, even though they're objectively guardians. When I'm dining with religious folks, I have no trouble saying "Amen" or some such phrase from their religion despite me being an atheist. Saying something you don't objectively believe out of consideration for others' feelings is normal, and it's fairly basic manners.
wazoox 7y ago
That's not respect, that's an overarching extension of individualism and an extension of the notion of "respecting my freedom" to "not doing anything that bothers me". This is a very dangerous and toxic ideology, so I'll very carefully avoid complying to it, thank you very much. BTW as I have long blond hair I'm called madam quite often and learned not to be bothered by it though I'm a cis hetero white male. Furthermore it comes often from children, who speak the truth as everyone knows. So grow a spine and fight, don't nag everyone else to be nice. People aren't nice. The world isn't any more just than we make it. And lynching (even symbolically) isn't the way to get a just world. Victims aren't noble. Fighters are. See Malcolm X. MLK. Rosa Luxemburg. Daniel Guérin.
- mnsc 7y ago
  > learned not to be bothered by it Have you ever been forced to use a women's bathroom because of your, probably fabulous, hair?
  - wazoox 7y ago
    I wouldn't anyway because I know precisely why there are separate bathrooms for men and women: because men usually pee on the seat. In the case I would have to pee in women's toilet, I would sit down (because what you actually do is eventually respect, not your herd signalling, or empty words). On the other hand, how many different toilets should there be in your world? Should non transgender women be allowed in women's toilets? That has been an actual question and an actual problem to solve in the world of infinitely exploded communities of precious snowflakes (in the very same order of absurdity, should veiled white women allowed in "coloured women only" meetings? what about transgender black women?). As food for thought, if you believe that, as a white cis male, I'm a born oppressor, I've also been actually harassed, publicly humiliated, attacked and beaten for being "a fag" (you know, long blond hair), because homophobes don't really care about who you actually are, and also beaten for defending women harassed on the street (because machos/sexists are also generally violent). In the global competition for victimhood, nobody can win. Who knows what humiliations RMS was subjected to for being ugly, fat, an asocial geek, etc. Maybe he used the power he has in some sets and circumstances in despicable ways. But so do the students at Evergreen, because that's just what human beings do. Being an aggressor or a victim is mostly circumstantial for most people.
zzzcpan 7y ago
That's just an ideology you subscribe to and fail to recognize that SJW may seem like creepy disrespectful totalitarian garbage by others who don't. You can't demand anyone to follow your ideology out of respect.
- mnsc 7y ago
  Haha lol troll!

by mnsc 7y ago

stOneskull 7y ago

i wouldn't think you are being disrespectful for disagreeing that there are only two sexes. even if you were, then big whoop. you don't have to respect me. sometimes it seems like it's an endless boo-hoo until we're all winston smiths, scared to even think (and the thought of that really offends me).

mnsc 7y ago
> you don't have to respect me Thank you for that free pass! I think you are a full on idiot that is void of empathy and is so full of yourself only because you read 1984 (I bet you've read atlas shrugged too and was "mind blown"). Your paranoia and tendency to see boogey mans is what's destroying the world, it's sure as fuck not me who say "let's try to respect each others wishes". You would do best if you didn't voice another butt stupid opinion until you talked to at least one intergender/trans/non-binary person which I assume you don't have. See, that's how you disagree in a disrespectful way. You absolute wanker.

x220 7y ago

I think that respect is something earned and is not to be extended to everyone without distinction. If you think everyone should be called by their preferred pronouns, that's not respect.

mnsc 7y ago
> If you think everyone should be called by their preferred pronouns, that's not respect How is that not respecting others?
- Hitton 7y ago
  Will you respect my pronouns if say my pronouns are God/God/Gods? Some people might tolerate it, but for most I doubt. zie,sie,ey,ve,tey,e,xe,ze,ne,shi, furries and similar try to use fae, plant, bun, star, void. And that's just few examples. Most people will reasonably draw a line somewhere. Some people just decide to draw line behind he/she and maybe also consider if the person appears vaguely male/female. One could also make claim that choosing some ridiculous new pronoun is disrespectful of others. People were content with he/she for thousands of years and some could consider inventing new ones similar to 1984's Newspeak.
  - mnsc 7y ago
    > One could also make claim that choosing some ridiculous new pronoun is disrespectful of others. Of course, but that hypothetical person who put forward this claim doesn't subscribe to the generally accepted definition of respect so I don't see why we should discuss that person.
    - sooheon 7y ago
      Is there an approved list of pronouns it is OK to choose from?
      - mnsc 7y ago
        I don't understand where this question comes from?
        sooheon 7y ago
        Since you said a hypothetical person who wants to be called by a ridiculous pronoun doesn't share your definition of respect, I'm wondering if you have an opinion on which desired pronouns are repectable and which aren't.

jdnenej 7y ago

Stallman has a post about how he refuses to use the word they because it's not traditionally correct English and has choses to invent his own word "per" to refer to someone without specifying gender. This seems acceptable to me. Stallman has always been weird with word choice but I see no bad intent here.

mnsc 7y ago
> This seems acceptable to me And to other's that seems like he doesn't respect the wishes of others and instead behaves in a way that is logically sound in his own mind. That's not a crime. Just a disrespectful way of behaving that generates antagonists instead of friends. Side note: "per" is very funny to me as a swede since it's a super common traditionally(exclusively?) male name.
- hdfbdtbcdg 7y ago
  Didn't Swedish add a new pronoun for gender neutral? I.e. exactly what RMS does?
  - mnsc 7y ago
    No, not really. We added "hen" who is short for "han/hon" ("he/she"). Some people want "hen" as pronoun as well which I think is awkward. I've only met nb people here who wants to be called "den", I guess from english "they". That is really hard for my programming since "den" is commonly used to refer to inanimate objects. It seem so inhuman to me that I have a really hard time respecting that. I try though. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
    - hdfbdtbcdg 7y ago
      He and she (and apparently now they) are subject pronouns as are han/hon... What is hen if not a subject pronoun?
      - mnsc 7y ago

username90 7y ago

A person with lots of integrity wont change what they say easily. If they don't believe that there are more than two genders, then for them to use a third pronoun with a straight face they would have to rebuild their entire worldview around gender. Of course that would be a good thing, but doing that would take a lot of work and not something you can get them to do in the few seconds it takes for a conversation to get awkward. I'd be more wary of the people with low integrity who just say what others want to hear, they change their speech but doesn't actually change their behavior and will still discriminate and undermine groups even when forced to change their speech pattern. Stallman seems to me like a person with an extremely high level of integrity, if a normal person believe that voluntary pedophilia is fine they would just shut up and join the mob but not Stallman. He faced his world view head on and no longer believe that pedophilia is fine, and we can be pretty sure that he actually changed since he doesn't buckle to pressure. The same can not be said about most politicians and other conventional leaders.

mnsc 7y ago
> I'd be more wary of the people with low integrity who just say what others want to hear, they change their speech but doesn't actually change their behavior and will still discriminate and undermine groups even when forced to change their speech pattern. Yep, they're the worst in my book as well.
intarga 7y ago
> they would have to rebuild their entire worldview around gender I don't really understand this. When I'm talking to an adopted child, I have no trouble calling their parents their parents, even though they're objectively guardians. When I'm dining with religious folks, I have no trouble saying "Amen" or some such phrase from their religion despite me being an atheist. Saying something you don't objectively believe out of consideration for others' feelings is normal, and it's fairly basic manners.

wazoox 7y ago

That's not respect, that's an overarching extension of individualism and an extension of the notion of "respecting my freedom" to "not doing anything that bothers me". This is a very dangerous and toxic ideology, so I'll very carefully avoid complying to it, thank you very much. BTW as I have long blond hair I'm called madam quite often and learned not to be bothered by it though I'm a cis hetero white male. Furthermore it comes often from children, who speak the truth as everyone knows. So grow a spine and fight, don't nag everyone else to be nice. People aren't nice. The world isn't any more just than we make it. And lynching (even symbolically) isn't the way to get a just world. Victims aren't noble. Fighters are. See Malcolm X. MLK. Rosa Luxemburg. Daniel Guérin.

mnsc 7y ago
> learned not to be bothered by it Have you ever been forced to use a women's bathroom because of your, probably fabulous, hair?
- wazoox 7y ago
  I wouldn't anyway because I know precisely why there are separate bathrooms for men and women: because men usually pee on the seat. In the case I would have to pee in women's toilet, I would sit down (because what you actually do is eventually respect, not your herd signalling, or empty words). On the other hand, how many different toilets should there be in your world? Should non transgender women be allowed in women's toilets? That has been an actual question and an actual problem to solve in the world of infinitely exploded communities of precious snowflakes (in the very same order of absurdity, should veiled white women allowed in "coloured women only" meetings? what about transgender black women?). As food for thought, if you believe that, as a white cis male, I'm a born oppressor, I've also been actually harassed, publicly humiliated, attacked and beaten for being "a fag" (you know, long blond hair), because homophobes don't really care about who you actually are, and also beaten for defending women harassed on the street (because machos/sexists are also generally violent). In the global competition for victimhood, nobody can win. Who knows what humiliations RMS was subjected to for being ugly, fat, an asocial geek, etc. Maybe he used the power he has in some sets and circumstances in despicable ways. But so do the students at Evergreen, because that's just what human beings do. Being an aggressor or a victim is mostly circumstantial for most people.

zzzcpan 7y ago

That's just an ideology you subscribe to and fail to recognize that SJW may seem like creepy disrespectful totalitarian garbage by others who don't. You can't demand anyone to follow your ideology out of respect.

mnsc 7y ago
Haha lol troll!