11 ms·

You forgot the most terrible accusation of all. He had a mattress in his office. Really, I've seen this fact listed among other examples of RMS misconduct.

by smsm42 7y ago

aortega 7y ago
Ah yes! the "Implications". For me, the implication of a mattress in his office are that he might sleep there. Any other implications are in the dirty mind of the accusers.
- nullc 7y ago
  RMS slept in his office for some time, in all these decades no one made anything out of it other than 'wow, how dedicated and odd that fellow is'. It wasn't some secret. And suddenly it gets pulled out of context by people who admit to having never met him as proof of something vague but nefarious. wtf.
zby 7y ago
I think the root of all of this is we use the same mental circuits when condemning sexual and hygienic misconduct. Someone called him creepy for publicly eating something from his foot - then in other circumstances the 'creepy' label was interpreted to be related to sex.
- pseudalopex 7y ago
  No, people have called him creepy for asking out MIT undergraduates and defending adults having sex with children.
  - lostjohnny 7y ago
    > people have called him creepy for asking out MIT undergraduates So every male at MIT is creepy then. > defending adults having sex with children. He was just arguing about the science available at the moment and even links the study on his website (everything is still there, he is not hiding anything)
    - rayiner 7y ago
      > So every male at MIT is creepy then. Well, yes.
      - lostjohnny 7y ago
        Remove them all then. Where's the outrage when we need it?
      - aortega 7y ago
        >> So every male at MIT is creepy then. >Well, yes. This is exactly the problem here. You, and many like you, are basically demonizing all men in MIT. For you, all men are guilty of being men and thus they should be removed. Its incredible that society tolerates such discrimination. This is beyond fascism.
        lostjohnny 7y ago
        > You, and many like you, are basically demonizing all men in MIT I was just being sarcastic and you are just overreacting. If asking a girl out is sexual assault, then all men are sexual predators. It's true even for girls, they ask men out, it's 2019 and I'm 43, I've seen much worse in my life than "asking a girl out". BTW, they can still say no, it's ok to say no.
      - dang 7y ago
        Surely you don't think it's ok to do this here?
        lostjohnny 7y ago
        What I think it doesn't matter. He was arguing using the science of the time. Darwin believed that "males are more evolutionarily advanced than females" and manyany anthropologists contemporary to Darwin concluded that "women's brains were analogous to those of animals," which had "overdeveloped" sense organs "to the detriment of the brain" Should we judge them for being wrong at the time, without knowing it?
    - 7y ago
  - zby 7y ago
    "defending adults having sex with children" - this again - if I accuse you of having sex with children - then everyone who defends you is a creep? We don't know if Minsky had sex with Guiffre - from her deposition we only know that she was directed to seduce him that was (one of) Stallmans point.
    - pseudalopex 7y ago
      Stallman's notes about pedophilia have nothing to do with Minsky and Giuffre.
      - underdown 7y ago
        So, wrongthink is what we are convicting him of? I disagree generally with his statement but reasonable people can disagree in a free society.
    - deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]
  - NateEag 7y ago
    I believe the creepiness at MIT was not "asking undergraduates out" - it was threatening to kill himself if the undergraduate did not accept. If true, that is deeply disturbing behavior.
    - pseudalopex 7y ago
      I agree. Some people dismiss it as a joke, though.
      - smsm42 7y ago
        Which we know for a fact it was, seeing as the data didn't happen and RMS is still alive.
        NateEag 7y ago
        People are not perfectly consistent. Not even RMS. It seems more likely to me he made the threat legitimately, but chose not to follow through. Do you have evidence for your assertion that it was a joke? The woman who experienced it certainly didn't perceive it as one.
        smsm42 7y ago
        > It seems more likely to me he made the threat legitimately If you genuinely think RMS was considering suicide over a date refusal, your likelyhood calibrations way off. He's weird, but he's not raving maniac. It is ok to exaggerate a little sometimes for the sake of argument, maybe, but really, there's bound of how far the credulity can be stretched. > Do you have evidence for your assertion that it was a joke? I just said it in my previous comment. Also, I've seen people. Virtually nobody, excepting gravely mentally ill people that are most likely already on heavy meds and being treated by psychiatrists, commits suicide over a date refusal from a random female. > The woman who experienced it certainly didn't perceive it as one. Not getting the joke is a common occurrence. I sometimes not get the jokes, even by professional comedians. And RMS never been a professional in this, so some rate of failure is expected. Making a huge deal out of it almost 40 years after it happened (to zero harm for anyone involved) is the insane part here. Especially as this seems to be the only documented episode of supposed myriads of harassment incidents RMS is supposedly famous for.
  - tdsamardzhiev 7y ago
    > I believe the creepiness at MIT was not "asking undergraduates out" - it was threatening to kill himself of the undergraduate did not accept. I've also done this, please don't get me fired. Well, I was 15 at the time, but perhaps still better socially adjusted than Stallman at 60.
  - smsm42 7y ago
    > asking out MIT undergraduates Oh horror! How can a man be so depraved, so devoid of any common decency, so enthralled to his animalistic desires as to ask out a MIT undergraduate! Who'd even think such thing is possible in our enlightened time. We all thought we are way past MIT undergrads being asked out, but here we go again.
skeptical900067 7y ago
Is this to say, "RS sometimes slept at the office to get more done, but the mattress weirded some people out" or "RS had a mattress in his office, which is evidence he used it to put female colleagues through unsavory casting-couch situations"? I cannot tell.
soulofmischief 7y ago
My personal favorite RMS faux pas is this: https://youtu.be/Rhj8sh1uiDY?t=98 https://youtu.be/Rhj8sh1uiDY?t=98 This is the kind of fearless leader we need in the software world.
tomcooks 7y ago
Isn't he known for wearing IT conventions t-shirts, his fear of water and sleeping in his own office? Plus the healthy snacks his feet provide
Insanity 7y ago
Can't tell if you're being serious. Having a mattress in your office is weird but does not imply misconduct at at all.
- jessaustin 7y ago
  Not only that, but anything that can happen on a mattress can happen on a couch. Lots of offices have couches.

You forgot the most terrible accusation of all. He had a mattress in his office. Really, I've seen this fact listed among other examples of RMS misconduct.

by smsm42 7y ago

You forgot the most terrible accusation of all. He had a mattress in his office. Really, I've seen this fact listed among other examples of RMS misconduct.

aortega 7y ago

Ah yes! the "Implications". For me, the implication of a mattress in his office are that he might sleep there. Any other implications are in the dirty mind of the accusers.

nullc 7y ago
RMS slept in his office for some time, in all these decades no one made anything out of it other than 'wow, how dedicated and odd that fellow is'. It wasn't some secret. And suddenly it gets pulled out of context by people who admit to having never met him as proof of something vague but nefarious. wtf.

zby 7y ago

I think the root of all of this is we use the same mental circuits when condemning sexual and hygienic misconduct. Someone called him creepy for publicly eating something from his foot - then in other circumstances the 'creepy' label was interpreted to be related to sex.

pseudalopex 7y ago
No, people have called him creepy for asking out MIT undergraduates and defending adults having sex with children.
- lostjohnny 7y ago
  > people have called him creepy for asking out MIT undergraduates So every male at MIT is creepy then. > defending adults having sex with children. He was just arguing about the science available at the moment and even links the study on his website (everything is still there, he is not hiding anything)
  - rayiner 7y ago
    > So every male at MIT is creepy then. Well, yes.
    - lostjohnny 7y ago
      Remove them all then. Where's the outrage when we need it?
    - aortega 7y ago
      >> So every male at MIT is creepy then. >Well, yes. This is exactly the problem here. You, and many like you, are basically demonizing all men in MIT. For you, all men are guilty of being men and thus they should be removed. Its incredible that society tolerates such discrimination. This is beyond fascism.
      - lostjohnny 7y ago
        > You, and many like you, are basically demonizing all men in MIT I was just being sarcastic and you are just overreacting. If asking a girl out is sexual assault, then all men are sexual predators. It's true even for girls, they ask men out, it's 2019 and I'm 43, I've seen much worse in my life than "asking a girl out". BTW, they can still say no, it's ok to say no.
    - dang 7y ago
      Surely you don't think it's ok to do this here?
      - lostjohnny 7y ago
        What I think it doesn't matter. He was arguing using the science of the time. Darwin believed that "males are more evolutionarily advanced than females" and manyany anthropologists contemporary to Darwin concluded that "women's brains were analogous to those of animals," which had "overdeveloped" sense organs "to the detriment of the brain" Should we judge them for being wrong at the time, without knowing it?
  - 7y ago
- zby 7y ago
  "defending adults having sex with children" - this again - if I accuse you of having sex with children - then everyone who defends you is a creep? We don't know if Minsky had sex with Guiffre - from her deposition we only know that she was directed to seduce him that was (one of) Stallmans point.
  - pseudalopex 7y ago
    Stallman's notes about pedophilia have nothing to do with Minsky and Giuffre.
    - underdown 7y ago
      So, wrongthink is what we are convicting him of? I disagree generally with his statement but reasonable people can disagree in a free society.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
- NateEag 7y ago
  I believe the creepiness at MIT was not "asking undergraduates out" - it was threatening to kill himself if the undergraduate did not accept. If true, that is deeply disturbing behavior.
  - pseudalopex 7y ago
    I agree. Some people dismiss it as a joke, though.
    - smsm42 7y ago
      Which we know for a fact it was, seeing as the data didn't happen and RMS is still alive.
      - NateEag 7y ago
        People are not perfectly consistent. Not even RMS. It seems more likely to me he made the threat legitimately, but chose not to follow through. Do you have evidence for your assertion that it was a joke? The woman who experienced it certainly didn't perceive it as one.
        smsm42 7y ago
        > It seems more likely to me he made the threat legitimately If you genuinely think RMS was considering suicide over a date refusal, your likelyhood calibrations way off. He's weird, but he's not raving maniac. It is ok to exaggerate a little sometimes for the sake of argument, maybe, but really, there's bound of how far the credulity can be stretched. > Do you have evidence for your assertion that it was a joke? I just said it in my previous comment. Also, I've seen people. Virtually nobody, excepting gravely mentally ill people that are most likely already on heavy meds and being treated by psychiatrists, commits suicide over a date refusal from a random female. > The woman who experienced it certainly didn't perceive it as one. Not getting the joke is a common occurrence. I sometimes not get the jokes, even by professional comedians. And RMS never been a professional in this, so some rate of failure is expected. Making a huge deal out of it almost 40 years after it happened (to zero harm for anyone involved) is the insane part here. Especially as this seems to be the only documented episode of supposed myriads of harassment incidents RMS is supposedly famous for.
- tdsamardzhiev 7y ago
  > I believe the creepiness at MIT was not "asking undergraduates out" - it was threatening to kill himself of the undergraduate did not accept. I've also done this, please don't get me fired. Well, I was 15 at the time, but perhaps still better socially adjusted than Stallman at 60.
- smsm42 7y ago
  > asking out MIT undergraduates Oh horror! How can a man be so depraved, so devoid of any common decency, so enthralled to his animalistic desires as to ask out a MIT undergraduate! Who'd even think such thing is possible in our enlightened time. We all thought we are way past MIT undergrads being asked out, but here we go again.

skeptical900067 7y ago

Is this to say, "RS sometimes slept at the office to get more done, but the mattress weirded some people out" or "RS had a mattress in his office, which is evidence he used it to put female colleagues through unsavory casting-couch situations"? I cannot tell.

soulofmischief 7y ago

My personal favorite RMS faux pas is this: https://youtu.be/Rhj8sh1uiDY?t=98 https://youtu.be/Rhj8sh1uiDY?t=98 This is the kind of fearless leader we need in the software world.

tomcooks 7y ago

Isn't he known for wearing IT conventions t-shirts, his fear of water and sleeping in his own office? Plus the healthy snacks his feet provide

Insanity 7y ago

Can't tell if you're being serious. Having a mattress in your office is weird but does not imply misconduct at at all.

jessaustin 7y ago
Not only that, but anything that can happen on a mattress can happen on a couch. Lots of offices have couches.