7 ms·

Just a few thoughts from and old guy who's baffled by some things in modern times... I struggle with names at times... And now pronouns? Uhhhh, I bet I screw

Just a few thoughts from and old guy who's baffled by some things in modern times... I struggle with names at times... And now pronouns? Uhhhh, I bet I screw it up more than 50% of the time. The differences in people (don't say god bless you you to some indians or muslims when they sneeze, for example) are more than I can keep track of at times. Does that make me a creep? There was one guy his chose "The Great and Powerful <something>" for his pronoun. Yeah, I'll remember that... At what point do you become a creep for not remembering? At what point do you become a target for the SJW hit squad?

vector_spaces 7y ago
WRT the "don't say god bless you" thing, I'm not really sure how that fits into what I'm saying, and that feels kind of like a straw man -- likewise with the "one guy" and their pronoun -- most queer and trans folks don't have pronouns like that. They are usually either people who were gendered as men or women most of their lives, who decided that they want to go by "she" or "he" respectively later in life, or people who aren't comfortable with either, and prefer "they". I haven't met someone yet who has preferences outside of that. But you know what? If I met one, it would cost me virtually nothing to respect their preferences and make them feel seen. And to be clear -- it's absolutely fine (usually) to make mistakes, so long as you're making an effort to be respectful. It's not ideal to not remember someone's pronouns (and again, 99% of the time when it's different than what you'd expect, it's either "he", "she", or "they"), but it's also usually not the end of the world -- most people I know, myself included, are fine if you say "oops! my bad". Intentions go a long way.
- x220 7y ago
  When is it not fine to make mistakes? You say that intentions go a long way (towards something), which makes it sound like it all depends on how this mistake is received by the transgender person. If there is no objective rule on how to acceptably address trans people, why should we enforce an imaginary rule?
- fredsanford 7y ago
  >> WRT the "don't say god bless you" thing, I'm not really sure how that fits into what I'm saying, and that feels kind of like a straw man -- likewise with the "one guy" and their pronoun -- most queer and trans folks don't have pronouns like that. They are usually either people who were gendered as men or women most of their lives, who decided that they want to go by "she" or "he" respectively later in life, or people who aren't comfortable with either, and prefer "they". I thought I covered that in 2 ways... 1) Random thoughts from an old guy 2) I was giving an example of the differences between people. I have been chastised in the past for saying bless you to some people. I've kind of trained myself now to say "Maay the diety of your choice bless you" in some cirumstances but I also get chastised for that. I've also been chastised for remaining silent. So, what choice do I make here to not be "creepy". For whatever it's worth.
  - magduf 7y ago
    >I've kind of trained myself now to say "Maay the diety of your choice bless you" in some cirumstances but I also get chastised for that. I always say "gesundheit", which is normal in German (it translates to "health"). As a non-religious person, I don't understand why religious people always want to push religion on everyone around them. The other thing you can do is just not say anything at all when someone sneezes. Asian cultures don't have this practice at all.
    - nyberg 7y ago
      It's not really pushing religion as it is an act of kindness. I don't really understand why someone would find it offensive for wishing them better health as it's the intention that counts rather than what faith you hold. I'm not religious at all and I still say "bless you" since it's from the culture I grew up with of wishing others well. If anyone finds that offensive then they certainly have more issues than I do.
      - magduf 7y ago
        >I don't really understand why someone would find it offensive for wishing them better health You're not just wishing them better health; you're wishing that your preferred deity magically give them better health. So you're pushing your faith in that deity on that person. >I'm not religious at all and I still say "bless you" since it's from the culture I grew up The culture I grew up in (America, specifically the South) does the same thing. It also has other great things in its "culture", like murdering black people with nooses during the Jim Crow days, and generally being intolerant of people who are different. "The culture I grew up in" is not a good excuse for bad behavior, and that includes pushing religion on people.
mnsc 7y ago
I've had "SJW" thrown at me a few good times. I wouldn't ever call someone a creep for not remembering. However if you interact with someone who identifies as non-binary and they tell you they would like to be addressed as "they" and you make a point to use the biologically closest pronoun while you also make sure to let them know that you believe there's only two distinct sexes/genders. I would call you/think of you as a disrespectful human being. Nothing more nothing less. But I you really try to remember, but can't overcome your programming (I do that often with my non-binary acquaintances, it's hard as fuck, but I guess I'm getting old as well ¯\_(ツ)_/¯) then you are a human being that tries to be respectful. And that's a good thing! So take a look in the mirror and try to see which one you are and ignore those disrespectful human beings that would call you a creep for not remembering.
- stOneskull 7y ago
  i wouldn't think you are being disrespectful for disagreeing that there are only two sexes. even if you were, then big whoop. you don't have to respect me. sometimes it seems like it's an endless boo-hoo until we're all winston smiths, scared to even think (and the thought of that really offends me).
  - mnsc 7y ago
    > you don't have to respect me Thank you for that free pass! I think you are a full on idiot that is void of empathy and is so full of yourself only because you read 1984 (I bet you've read atlas shrugged too and was "mind blown"). Your paranoia and tendency to see boogey mans is what's destroying the world, it's sure as fuck not me who say "let's try to respect each others wishes". You would do best if you didn't voice another butt stupid opinion until you talked to at least one intergender/trans/non-binary person which I assume you don't have. See, that's how you disagree in a disrespectful way. You absolute wanker.
- x220 7y ago
  I think that respect is something earned and is not to be extended to everyone without distinction. If you think everyone should be called by their preferred pronouns, that's not respect.
usrusr 7y ago
Apparently the neovictorian age has come and just like in the original version, etiquette rules are escalating into a fierce arms race.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]

vector_spaces 7y ago

WRT the "don't say god bless you" thing, I'm not really sure how that fits into what I'm saying, and that feels kind of like a straw man -- likewise with the "one guy" and their pronoun -- most queer and trans folks don't have pronouns like that. They are usually either people who were gendered as men or women most of their lives, who decided that they want to go by "she" or "he" respectively later in life, or people who aren't comfortable with either, and prefer "they". I haven't met someone yet who has preferences outside of that. But you know what? If I met one, it would cost me virtually nothing to respect their preferences and make them feel seen. And to be clear -- it's absolutely fine (usually) to make mistakes, so long as you're making an effort to be respectful. It's not ideal to not remember someone's pronouns (and again, 99% of the time when it's different than what you'd expect, it's either "he", "she", or "they"), but it's also usually not the end of the world -- most people I know, myself included, are fine if you say "oops! my bad". Intentions go a long way.

x220 7y ago
When is it not fine to make mistakes? You say that intentions go a long way (towards something), which makes it sound like it all depends on how this mistake is received by the transgender person. If there is no objective rule on how to acceptably address trans people, why should we enforce an imaginary rule?
fredsanford 7y ago
>> WRT the "don't say god bless you" thing, I'm not really sure how that fits into what I'm saying, and that feels kind of like a straw man -- likewise with the "one guy" and their pronoun -- most queer and trans folks don't have pronouns like that. They are usually either people who were gendered as men or women most of their lives, who decided that they want to go by "she" or "he" respectively later in life, or people who aren't comfortable with either, and prefer "they". I thought I covered that in 2 ways... 1) Random thoughts from an old guy 2) I was giving an example of the differences between people. I have been chastised in the past for saying bless you to some people. I've kind of trained myself now to say "Maay the diety of your choice bless you" in some cirumstances but I also get chastised for that. I've also been chastised for remaining silent. So, what choice do I make here to not be "creepy". For whatever it's worth.
- magduf 7y ago
  >I've kind of trained myself now to say "Maay the diety of your choice bless you" in some cirumstances but I also get chastised for that. I always say "gesundheit", which is normal in German (it translates to "health"). As a non-religious person, I don't understand why religious people always want to push religion on everyone around them. The other thing you can do is just not say anything at all when someone sneezes. Asian cultures don't have this practice at all.
  - nyberg 7y ago
    It's not really pushing religion as it is an act of kindness. I don't really understand why someone would find it offensive for wishing them better health as it's the intention that counts rather than what faith you hold. I'm not religious at all and I still say "bless you" since it's from the culture I grew up with of wishing others well. If anyone finds that offensive then they certainly have more issues than I do.
    - magduf 7y ago
      >I don't really understand why someone would find it offensive for wishing them better health You're not just wishing them better health; you're wishing that your preferred deity magically give them better health. So you're pushing your faith in that deity on that person. >I'm not religious at all and I still say "bless you" since it's from the culture I grew up The culture I grew up in (America, specifically the South) does the same thing. It also has other great things in its "culture", like murdering black people with nooses during the Jim Crow days, and generally being intolerant of people who are different. "The culture I grew up in" is not a good excuse for bad behavior, and that includes pushing religion on people.

mnsc 7y ago

I've had "SJW" thrown at me a few good times. I wouldn't ever call someone a creep for not remembering. However if you interact with someone who identifies as non-binary and they tell you they would like to be addressed as "they" and you make a point to use the biologically closest pronoun while you also make sure to let them know that you believe there's only two distinct sexes/genders. I would call you/think of you as a disrespectful human being. Nothing more nothing less. But I you really try to remember, but can't overcome your programming (I do that often with my non-binary acquaintances, it's hard as fuck, but I guess I'm getting old as well ¯\_(ツ)_/¯) then you are a human being that tries to be respectful. And that's a good thing! So take a look in the mirror and try to see which one you are and ignore those disrespectful human beings that would call you a creep for not remembering.

stOneskull 7y ago
i wouldn't think you are being disrespectful for disagreeing that there are only two sexes. even if you were, then big whoop. you don't have to respect me. sometimes it seems like it's an endless boo-hoo until we're all winston smiths, scared to even think (and the thought of that really offends me).
- mnsc 7y ago
  > you don't have to respect me Thank you for that free pass! I think you are a full on idiot that is void of empathy and is so full of yourself only because you read 1984 (I bet you've read atlas shrugged too and was "mind blown"). Your paranoia and tendency to see boogey mans is what's destroying the world, it's sure as fuck not me who say "let's try to respect each others wishes". You would do best if you didn't voice another butt stupid opinion until you talked to at least one intergender/trans/non-binary person which I assume you don't have. See, that's how you disagree in a disrespectful way. You absolute wanker.
x220 7y ago
I think that respect is something earned and is not to be extended to everyone without distinction. If you think everyone should be called by their preferred pronouns, that's not respect.

usrusr 7y ago

Apparently the neovictorian age has come and just like in the original version, etiquette rules are escalating into a fierce arms race.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]