8 ms·

The depth and breadth of anti-Tesla sentiment in HN threads is curious. It's rarely from owners. By all satisfaction surveys, owners love their Teslas.

xedeon 7y ago
It's very intriguing indeed... I always thought the HN demographic is a pretty smart bunch, because I often learn quite a bit from the comment section. I don't get all of the anti-Tesla vitriol, I'm honestly curious what fuels it. It's like all objectivity get's thrown out the window.
- tastroder 7y ago
  > It's like all objectivity get's thrown out the window. Welcome to the internet? Tesla is just a divisive topic around here and only a small percentage of that concerns their products. As somebody usually only watching these threads it's quite amusing to be honest. On one side you have the people that just don't like Musk, or those with legit concerns like the right to repair folks. On the other hand you have a mix of satisfied owners and people that for some reason to into full "somebody is wrong on the internet" mode. There rarely ever seems to be any constructive discussion in these threads, any praise devolves into mud swinging, every criticism is jumped upon or dismissed.
- mikorym 7y ago
  I think the people that read HN is a different demographic from those that submit, and again different from those that comment. If you look at people's profiles you can quite starkly see some are uploaders, some don't upload or comment, some only comment. Having said that, HN is more obnoxious nowadays to me than earlier.
  - xedeon 7y ago
    > HN is more obnoxious nowadays to me than earlier. Yeah... I noticed this recently too. The early days were very enjoyable and insightful. Do you have other alternatives?
    - mikorym 7y ago
      https://quiethn.com/ https://quiethn.com/ I would maybe prefer something that is linux inspired, but https://www.phoronix.com/ https://www.phoronix.com/ is too wordy for me. Something like https://www.planetizen.com/ https://www.planetizen.com/ is cool for me, but maybe too specific. Suprisingly, Reddit is cool if you choose your subreddits wisely. But apart from that, tbh I think it's probably better to read actual books on topics you find stimulating or maybe something like the Economist.
      - xedeon 7y ago
        These are great, thanks!
- kabes 7y ago
  It goes both ways. Tesla, just like Apple, has kind of a hype around which polarizes discussions in both ways. While some people criticize them too much I don't understand how they get away with the $6000 scam the FSD kit is. I don't think a less hyped brand would get away that.
  - xedeon 7y ago
    > I don't understand how they get away with the $6000 scam the FSD kit is. I don't think a less hyped brand would get away that. This is exactly the kind of vitriol I was talking about... "FSD" now has Navigate on Autopilot, Smart Summon (with v10 it now comes to YOU! https://youtu.be/9cuJATedvDk https://youtu.be/9cuJATedvDk a Tesla exclusive feature?) Autopark and Auto Lane Change. If you option these on other similarly priced cars, the bundle will be priced either the same or probably even more.
    - kabes 7y ago
      If you option these on other cars they don't promise you a full self driving car, you get exactly what you pay for. Smart summon and friends are, to me, nothing more than fun gimmicks. The promise of FSD is well... full self driving, to which they have missed every deadline so far and they will very likely not reach it within the lifetime of the current generation teslas. So if you pay $6000 on the promise of getting a full self driving car and you never get it, how is that not a scam?
- jcfrei 7y ago
  Tesla has been discussed here for a very long time. And on HN contrarian opinions appear to get more votes than mainstream ones. Back when it wasn't clear that electric cars would have a chance at becoming mainstream talking positively about Tesla was a lot more popular than now (where Tesla seems to be the benchmark for electric cars). At least that's how I remember it, the HN search doesn't seem to go back further than 5 years.
- vetler 7y ago
  I used to be "anti Tesla", then I tried one, and now I own one. Teslas are disruptive - they're not what you expect of cars. I will never look the same at a car again. Tell this to anyone who doesn't understand, and they simply won't understand what you're going on about. Over a year in; driving my Model X still makes me smile.
- moduspol 7y ago
  It's just the Windows / Mac thing all over again. The parallels are striking.
muzika 7y ago
I am also buffled. Teslas make all other feel like a flip phones compared to a smart phone. After owning a Tesla driving an ICE car feels like going back in time. Even for long trips I prefer to take a Tesla, even though I also own 2 gas cars too.
- Traster 7y ago
  That's because you're not thinking about it from the perspective of the people you're talking about. The only experience that non-Tesla owners have of Tesla is constantly hearing bullshit about "Self-driving" that have constantly been proven untrue, all sorts of stories about quality issues, and a CEO who in many ways is a dick.
quaa55 7y ago
as an owner and investor in Tesla, i find it best to avoid hacker news threads tesla focused due to the lack of ignorance and closed minded people who think they know about this company from all of the negative press that they read about the company - which generally is either months old, or talking about garbage. It always ends up this way, for tesla stuff stick with the forums ( tesla, module three owners club, etc ) and reddit. it’s unfortunate because i’m sure there are some cool thoughts and idea out there on HN but it’s always ruined by negativity. in which, watch this comment get downvoted to oblivion.
- davedx 7y ago
  Yeah agree, and its not just Tesla. HN comments are negative in general, sometimes to ridiculous extents. I still read them for the odd insightful or interesting take though.
- hef19898 7y ago
  I am honestly not sure how to react to that post. So let me give you some points, in no particular order: - Just stating bad press has some connotation of "fake news", there is a lot of bias in the media regarding Musk and Tesla. So much that it is close to impossible to get a fact based view. Yet, the facts ot there aren't that great, especially regarding the finances. So if you are making a point about opinions being based on bad press alone and criticize others, provide fact and data. - Saying others talk garbage is kind of a personal attack, you might want to refer again the posting guidelines. - One of the interesting points about HN is the multitude of opinions, you don't have to agree to learn something new. Quite the contrary. And here the guidelines come in to have an open discussion. On a side note, I didn't downvote you. Reason is because in threads like these it doesn't help a lot anyways. Also, I think personal opinions about the discussions here themselves are perfectly fine. Just tone it down with regards to opinions you don't necessarily agree with.
dwoozle 7y ago
Well, Tesla is doing a lot of things right and a lot of things wrong both as a company and as a product. It’s natural that it would be polarizing compared to a company going straight down the middle like Honda.
bald 7y ago
I fully agree and am caught in shock every time for the huge dissonance. This doesn't make sense.
timc3 7y ago
I think its because from the outside the same things that annoy with Apple products seems present in Tesla models. Namely: rights to repair and freedom of choice around that. Pursuit of form over function - using a bloody great touch screen when its better not to take your eyes off the road (I prefer physical buttons and dials, plus idrive anyday personally). The fact that the interiors are lower quality than perhaps they should be for the price. Perhaps mix that with some other less than attractive traits.
UIZealot 7y ago
My Model S came with a 3G connection and everything worked pretty well. Then one time I decided to tether it to my phone. Soon after I got a software update, and I went ahead and applied it. Big mistake. The update not only changed the GUI substantially, but also broke the navigation system and the voice command system. The navigation system now gives two or three instructions and then nothing, it'd still be active and following the route on screen, but no more instructions. The voice command system took around 5 seconds to get ready to record, while it was instantaneous before the update. I took it in for service. They seemed to know about the navigation system problem. But all they could do was to apply the latest update. It didn't fix the navigation system, and the voice command system now takes around 10 seconds to get ready. Overall I still like the car, but I don't think I'll ever get another, not while they're still pushing out half-baked software updates that could potentially cripple critical functionalities.
- Dumblydorr 7y ago
  Do you think OEM EVs will have better software than an SV EV?
outadoc 7y ago
This just in: Tesla owners more likely to enjoy the car they chose to buy.
- moduspol 7y ago
  Also just in: People who think you have to use the touchscreen to drive the car don't have a meaningful opinion about the car
  - herewego 7y ago
    Also also just in: You can not drive a Tesla without using the touchscreen on an almost constant basis. You have never owned a Tesla if you think this is not the case.
    - moduspol 7y ago
      I've had a Model 3 for about a year, and it is absolutely not the case. You are ludicrously misinformed, but don't let that stop you from commenting.
      - herewego 7y ago
        I’m not sure why you’re getting upset. I have owned a Model S for 3yrs, I have close friends with Model 3’s that I have driven on a regular basis, and this is a reality that we all agree on. I am most definitely not misinformed. Nearly every setting is controlled on the touchscreen interface. I’m not sure why you would claim that is not the case.
        moduspol 7y ago
        Nearly every setting you'd use while driving is also on the steering wheel. Your claim was this: > You can not drive a Tesla without using the touchscreen on an almost constant basis. This is patently false, but I can't prove a negative. I drive the car every day without touching the screen, let alone on any constant basis, but I guess maybe you know better.
tonyedgecombe 7y ago
It works both ways, I’ve been heavily downvoted just for saying they won’t have the EV market all to themselves much longer.
- theshrike79 7y ago
  I'm still waiting for a viable Tesla competitor. The supercharger network is a surprisingly big bonus when doing the SWOT analysis of buying an EV. Feature parity would (for me) require at least: 1) Same price point 2) Decent size, bigger than a Leaf, but still not SUV-big 3) Same range with same carrying capacity 4) Something that would compete with the Supercharger network 5) The Geek factor. I want a super-techy EV, not something that's exactly like a normal car, except electric.
  - marvin 7y ago
    Just went for a 2x12-hour road trip, for the first time in a Tesla. We had a total of two 20-minute charging stops on each (12-hour) leg, during which we ate a burger, took a toilet break and had a cup of coffee. When we were done, the car had enough charge to reach the next planned stop (in 4 hours) with 25% capacity to spare. Absolutely zero worry about running out of energy, zero time standing still that we wouldn't be taking a break anyway. All three of us were more rested when we arrived than when we took the same trip in an ICE car six months ago, due to a more quiet and comfortable ride with no engine vibrations. Notably, the trip was also faster.
herewego 7y ago
I’m a former owner of a top of the range Model S and I feel strongly that others should be well informed of Tesla’s deficiencies, of which there are many. Tesla fanboy-ism is a very real phenomenon. And although they’re model line is going in the right direction, they have a long way to go before they compete with the driver thoughtfulness of other vehicles in the same price range.
trca 7y ago
Can confirm: I love my Model 3, wouldn't trade it for the world - including all the feature that "tech-experts" on HN love to complain about such as being locked into a touchscreen with a proprietary OS.

xedeon 7y ago

It's very intriguing indeed... I always thought the HN demographic is a pretty smart bunch, because I often learn quite a bit from the comment section. I don't get all of the anti-Tesla vitriol, I'm honestly curious what fuels it. It's like all objectivity get's thrown out the window.

tastroder 7y ago
> It's like all objectivity get's thrown out the window. Welcome to the internet? Tesla is just a divisive topic around here and only a small percentage of that concerns their products. As somebody usually only watching these threads it's quite amusing to be honest. On one side you have the people that just don't like Musk, or those with legit concerns like the right to repair folks. On the other hand you have a mix of satisfied owners and people that for some reason to into full "somebody is wrong on the internet" mode. There rarely ever seems to be any constructive discussion in these threads, any praise devolves into mud swinging, every criticism is jumped upon or dismissed.
mikorym 7y ago
I think the people that read HN is a different demographic from those that submit, and again different from those that comment. If you look at people's profiles you can quite starkly see some are uploaders, some don't upload or comment, some only comment. Having said that, HN is more obnoxious nowadays to me than earlier.
- xedeon 7y ago
  > HN is more obnoxious nowadays to me than earlier. Yeah... I noticed this recently too. The early days were very enjoyable and insightful. Do you have other alternatives?
  - mikorym 7y ago
    https://quiethn.com/ https://quiethn.com/ I would maybe prefer something that is linux inspired, but https://www.phoronix.com/ https://www.phoronix.com/ is too wordy for me. Something like https://www.planetizen.com/ https://www.planetizen.com/ is cool for me, but maybe too specific. Suprisingly, Reddit is cool if you choose your subreddits wisely. But apart from that, tbh I think it's probably better to read actual books on topics you find stimulating or maybe something like the Economist.
    - xedeon 7y ago
      These are great, thanks!
kabes 7y ago
It goes both ways. Tesla, just like Apple, has kind of a hype around which polarizes discussions in both ways. While some people criticize them too much I don't understand how they get away with the $6000 scam the FSD kit is. I don't think a less hyped brand would get away that.
- xedeon 7y ago
  > I don't understand how they get away with the $6000 scam the FSD kit is. I don't think a less hyped brand would get away that. This is exactly the kind of vitriol I was talking about... "FSD" now has Navigate on Autopilot, Smart Summon (with v10 it now comes to YOU! https://youtu.be/9cuJATedvDk https://youtu.be/9cuJATedvDk a Tesla exclusive feature?) Autopark and Auto Lane Change. If you option these on other similarly priced cars, the bundle will be priced either the same or probably even more.
  - kabes 7y ago
    If you option these on other cars they don't promise you a full self driving car, you get exactly what you pay for. Smart summon and friends are, to me, nothing more than fun gimmicks. The promise of FSD is well... full self driving, to which they have missed every deadline so far and they will very likely not reach it within the lifetime of the current generation teslas. So if you pay $6000 on the promise of getting a full self driving car and you never get it, how is that not a scam?
jcfrei 7y ago
Tesla has been discussed here for a very long time. And on HN contrarian opinions appear to get more votes than mainstream ones. Back when it wasn't clear that electric cars would have a chance at becoming mainstream talking positively about Tesla was a lot more popular than now (where Tesla seems to be the benchmark for electric cars). At least that's how I remember it, the HN search doesn't seem to go back further than 5 years.
vetler 7y ago
I used to be "anti Tesla", then I tried one, and now I own one. Teslas are disruptive - they're not what you expect of cars. I will never look the same at a car again. Tell this to anyone who doesn't understand, and they simply won't understand what you're going on about. Over a year in; driving my Model X still makes me smile.
moduspol 7y ago
It's just the Windows / Mac thing all over again. The parallels are striking.

muzika 7y ago

I am also buffled. Teslas make all other feel like a flip phones compared to a smart phone. After owning a Tesla driving an ICE car feels like going back in time. Even for long trips I prefer to take a Tesla, even though I also own 2 gas cars too.

Traster 7y ago
That's because you're not thinking about it from the perspective of the people you're talking about. The only experience that non-Tesla owners have of Tesla is constantly hearing bullshit about "Self-driving" that have constantly been proven untrue, all sorts of stories about quality issues, and a CEO who in many ways is a dick.

quaa55 7y ago

as an owner and investor in Tesla, i find it best to avoid hacker news threads tesla focused due to the lack of ignorance and closed minded people who think they know about this company from all of the negative press that they read about the company - which generally is either months old, or talking about garbage. It always ends up this way, for tesla stuff stick with the forums ( tesla, module three owners club, etc ) and reddit. it’s unfortunate because i’m sure there are some cool thoughts and idea out there on HN but it’s always ruined by negativity. in which, watch this comment get downvoted to oblivion.

davedx 7y ago
Yeah agree, and its not just Tesla. HN comments are negative in general, sometimes to ridiculous extents. I still read them for the odd insightful or interesting take though.
hef19898 7y ago
I am honestly not sure how to react to that post. So let me give you some points, in no particular order: - Just stating bad press has some connotation of "fake news", there is a lot of bias in the media regarding Musk and Tesla. So much that it is close to impossible to get a fact based view. Yet, the facts ot there aren't that great, especially regarding the finances. So if you are making a point about opinions being based on bad press alone and criticize others, provide fact and data. - Saying others talk garbage is kind of a personal attack, you might want to refer again the posting guidelines. - One of the interesting points about HN is the multitude of opinions, you don't have to agree to learn something new. Quite the contrary. And here the guidelines come in to have an open discussion. On a side note, I didn't downvote you. Reason is because in threads like these it doesn't help a lot anyways. Also, I think personal opinions about the discussions here themselves are perfectly fine. Just tone it down with regards to opinions you don't necessarily agree with.

dwoozle 7y ago

Well, Tesla is doing a lot of things right and a lot of things wrong both as a company and as a product. It’s natural that it would be polarizing compared to a company going straight down the middle like Honda.

bald 7y ago

I fully agree and am caught in shock every time for the huge dissonance. This doesn't make sense.

timc3 7y ago

I think its because from the outside the same things that annoy with Apple products seems present in Tesla models. Namely: rights to repair and freedom of choice around that. Pursuit of form over function - using a bloody great touch screen when its better not to take your eyes off the road (I prefer physical buttons and dials, plus idrive anyday personally). The fact that the interiors are lower quality than perhaps they should be for the price. Perhaps mix that with some other less than attractive traits.

UIZealot 7y ago

My Model S came with a 3G connection and everything worked pretty well. Then one time I decided to tether it to my phone. Soon after I got a software update, and I went ahead and applied it. Big mistake. The update not only changed the GUI substantially, but also broke the navigation system and the voice command system. The navigation system now gives two or three instructions and then nothing, it'd still be active and following the route on screen, but no more instructions. The voice command system took around 5 seconds to get ready to record, while it was instantaneous before the update. I took it in for service. They seemed to know about the navigation system problem. But all they could do was to apply the latest update. It didn't fix the navigation system, and the voice command system now takes around 10 seconds to get ready. Overall I still like the car, but I don't think I'll ever get another, not while they're still pushing out half-baked software updates that could potentially cripple critical functionalities.

Dumblydorr 7y ago
Do you think OEM EVs will have better software than an SV EV?

outadoc 7y ago

This just in: Tesla owners more likely to enjoy the car they chose to buy.

moduspol 7y ago
Also just in: People who think you have to use the touchscreen to drive the car don't have a meaningful opinion about the car
- herewego 7y ago
  Also also just in: You can not drive a Tesla without using the touchscreen on an almost constant basis. You have never owned a Tesla if you think this is not the case.
  - moduspol 7y ago
    I've had a Model 3 for about a year, and it is absolutely not the case. You are ludicrously misinformed, but don't let that stop you from commenting.
    - herewego 7y ago
      I’m not sure why you’re getting upset. I have owned a Model S for 3yrs, I have close friends with Model 3’s that I have driven on a regular basis, and this is a reality that we all agree on. I am most definitely not misinformed. Nearly every setting is controlled on the touchscreen interface. I’m not sure why you would claim that is not the case.
      - moduspol 7y ago
        Nearly every setting you'd use while driving is also on the steering wheel. Your claim was this: > You can not drive a Tesla without using the touchscreen on an almost constant basis. This is patently false, but I can't prove a negative. I drive the car every day without touching the screen, let alone on any constant basis, but I guess maybe you know better.

tonyedgecombe 7y ago

It works both ways, I’ve been heavily downvoted just for saying they won’t have the EV market all to themselves much longer.

theshrike79 7y ago
I'm still waiting for a viable Tesla competitor. The supercharger network is a surprisingly big bonus when doing the SWOT analysis of buying an EV. Feature parity would (for me) require at least: 1) Same price point 2) Decent size, bigger than a Leaf, but still not SUV-big 3) Same range with same carrying capacity 4) Something that would compete with the Supercharger network 5) The Geek factor. I want a super-techy EV, not something that's exactly like a normal car, except electric.
- marvin 7y ago
  Just went for a 2x12-hour road trip, for the first time in a Tesla. We had a total of two 20-minute charging stops on each (12-hour) leg, during which we ate a burger, took a toilet break and had a cup of coffee. When we were done, the car had enough charge to reach the next planned stop (in 4 hours) with 25% capacity to spare. Absolutely zero worry about running out of energy, zero time standing still that we wouldn't be taking a break anyway. All three of us were more rested when we arrived than when we took the same trip in an ICE car six months ago, due to a more quiet and comfortable ride with no engine vibrations. Notably, the trip was also faster.

herewego 7y ago

I’m a former owner of a top of the range Model S and I feel strongly that others should be well informed of Tesla’s deficiencies, of which there are many. Tesla fanboy-ism is a very real phenomenon. And although they’re model line is going in the right direction, they have a long way to go before they compete with the driver thoughtfulness of other vehicles in the same price range.

trca 7y ago

Can confirm: I love my Model 3, wouldn't trade it for the world - including all the feature that "tech-experts" on HN love to complain about such as being locked into a touchscreen with a proprietary OS.