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If you're not aware, Tesla since the beginning has offered other legacy auto manufacturers unfettered access to the supercharger network if they agree to should

by xedeon 7y ago

If you're not aware, Tesla since the beginning has offered other legacy auto manufacturers unfettered access to the supercharger network if they agree to shoulder the cost. Not a SINGLE one took them up on the offer! https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/tesla-elon-musk-open-supercharger-network/ https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/tesla-elon-musk-open-supe...

clouddrover 7y ago
No one else will adopt Tesla's standard. You're avoiding the question rather than answering it. CCS charging providers allow Teslas to charge on their networks today. When will Tesla reciprocate and convert to CCS?
- xedeon 7y ago
  Take a step back and listen to yourself. > No one else will adopt Tesla's standard. Why won't they? They don't have to pay any licensing fees and would save $$ on R&D. > CCS charging providers allow Teslas to charge on their networks today. Because Tesla have chosen to adapt it or at least provide Tesla owners an adaptor for CCS/ChadeMo. Why can't others do the same for the SuperCharger network? Give me a good reason why. > When will Tesla reciprocate and convert to CCS? Let me just phone a Tesla VP and ask. /s Are you seriously asking this?
  - clouddrover 7y ago
    > Why won't they? Because they've standardized on CCS. Tesla tried to set a standard and it failed. It's time to switch to the standard. The European Tesla Model 3 comes with a CCS type 2 combo port, so there's no technical impediment to implementing CCS. > Why can't others do the same for the SuperCharger network? More adapters we don't need. Everyone else is CCS, why isn't Tesla? Why should everyone manufacture and carry around adapters when it's much easier for Tesla to just switch its superchargers to CCS. > Are you seriously asking this? Yes. If Tesla genuinely wants to "accelerate the advent of sustainable transport" then it's time to get onboard with a common charging standard.
    - xedeon 7y ago
      > More adapters we don't need. Everyone else is CCS, why isn't Tesla? Why should everyone manufacture and carry around adapters when it's much easier for Tesla to just switch its superchargers to CCS. In EU maybe. Tesla Superchargers are more prevalent in the North America. The real reason nobody wanted to adopt the Tesla network is because CCS is a standard created by competitors (Audi, BMW, Daimler, Ford, General Motors, Porsche and Volkswagen) its bad optics for them if they do. Also, have you experienced charging on a Tesla Supercharger compared to CCS stations? It's a night and day difference... No sane person would choose CCS: Tesla: I just tap my charge port to open it and plug the connector. DONE. My credit card that's linked to my account is billed. CCS: Take out my wallet, use a card or RFID, decipher the menu, press some buttons and only then can I start charging. If you need instructions like the picture below, you already failed in usability: https://www.mynrma.com.au/-/media/electric-cars/details.png https://www.mynrma.com.au/-/media/electric-cars/details.png
      - clouddrover 7y ago
        > CCS is a standard created by competitors (Audi, BMW, Daimler, Ford, General Motors, Porsche and Volkswagen) Add Hyundai to the list: https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/hyundai-kia-ionity-electric-car-charging/ https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/hyundai-kia-ionity-electr... The reasons for CCS are irrelevant. The practical reality is CCS is the standard now. It's time for Tesla to get in the boat and row. > Tesla: I just tap my charge port to open it and plug the connector. DONE. My credit card that's linked to my account is billed. The Mercedes Me account works the same way across CCS charging networks for the Mercedes EQC. Electrify America, ChargePoint, and EVgo have roaming agreements to allow the one account to be billed across all networks: https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/evgo-electrify-america-charging-station/ https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/evgo-electrify-america-ch... When will Tesla start being a team player?
  - manigandham 7y ago
    All manufacturers should converge, and the most common standard now is CCS so logically and practically that's what should be used. It's fine for Tesla's to use adapters, but it would be better to just accept the reality that the timing didn't work out and join the group rather than waiting for the group to change (which at this point won't ever happen).
- kwhitefoot 7y ago
  The Model 3 in Europe uses CCS and many (perhaps most) of the stations here in Norway already have CCS connectors.
  - clouddrover 7y ago
    Yes. All we need now is the timetable for Tesla opening their network to all EVs that can charge via CCS.
  - Faark 7y ago
    Unlikely because tesla wants to... they are forced to by gov. Kind of like the EU had to force phone manufacturers to switch to USB. Except tesla still seems to be resisting against the somewhat painful switch.
rainyMammoth 7y ago
This is the same strawman as Apple with the open "Thunderbolt" specs. They open it up and hope other people will adopt it with the goal of profiting Apple that still controls the specs. In addition they can also claim that other players are bad players because they didn't use the "open" specs. That's not how it should work. Other EV makers are doing this correctly with an open consortium. A single brand (Tesla) shouldn't dictate what standards to use.
- xedeon 7y ago
  The thing is, the Tesla charging standard predates CCS. Tesla has already deployed and invested on many supercharger stations. The CCS consortium instead of adopting it, instead got together and developed CCS. The CCS consortium (composed of mainly GM and german manufacturers) is also not without fault... They completely ignored the already established CHAdeMO standard, because it's developed by five major Japanese automakers. But it seems that Tesla gets all the flak, when the reality is the whole industry do not wan't to hash it out.
  - clouddrover 7y ago
    > The thing is, the Tesla charging standard predates CCS. Yes. Tesla tried to set a standard and they failed. The industry did not adopt it. It's time to move on to CCS. > Tesla has already deployed and invested on many supercharger stations. That's not an issue. Tesla doesn't need to start from zero. They can retrofit the chargers for CCS without too much trouble.
    - xedeon 7y ago
      > That's not an issue. Care to elaborate? > They can retrofit the chargers for CCS without too much trouble. Do you have experience running a business? That's easy for someone watching from the sidelines to say. But the reality is that something like this have financial and logistical hurdles. As of Sept this year, there are currently 14,081 individual Supercharger stalls at 1,604 locations worldwide. Retrofitting all of those is hardly "without too much trouble". That's a fact.

by xedeon 7y ago

clouddrover 7y ago

No one else will adopt Tesla's standard. You're avoiding the question rather than answering it. CCS charging providers allow Teslas to charge on their networks today. When will Tesla reciprocate and convert to CCS?

xedeon 7y ago
Take a step back and listen to yourself. > No one else will adopt Tesla's standard. Why won't they? They don't have to pay any licensing fees and would save $$ on R&D. > CCS charging providers allow Teslas to charge on their networks today. Because Tesla have chosen to adapt it or at least provide Tesla owners an adaptor for CCS/ChadeMo. Why can't others do the same for the SuperCharger network? Give me a good reason why. > When will Tesla reciprocate and convert to CCS? Let me just phone a Tesla VP and ask. /s Are you seriously asking this?
- clouddrover 7y ago
  > Why won't they? Because they've standardized on CCS. Tesla tried to set a standard and it failed. It's time to switch to the standard. The European Tesla Model 3 comes with a CCS type 2 combo port, so there's no technical impediment to implementing CCS. > Why can't others do the same for the SuperCharger network? More adapters we don't need. Everyone else is CCS, why isn't Tesla? Why should everyone manufacture and carry around adapters when it's much easier for Tesla to just switch its superchargers to CCS. > Are you seriously asking this? Yes. If Tesla genuinely wants to "accelerate the advent of sustainable transport" then it's time to get onboard with a common charging standard.
  - xedeon 7y ago
    > More adapters we don't need. Everyone else is CCS, why isn't Tesla? Why should everyone manufacture and carry around adapters when it's much easier for Tesla to just switch its superchargers to CCS. In EU maybe. Tesla Superchargers are more prevalent in the North America. The real reason nobody wanted to adopt the Tesla network is because CCS is a standard created by competitors (Audi, BMW, Daimler, Ford, General Motors, Porsche and Volkswagen) its bad optics for them if they do. Also, have you experienced charging on a Tesla Supercharger compared to CCS stations? It's a night and day difference... No sane person would choose CCS: Tesla: I just tap my charge port to open it and plug the connector. DONE. My credit card that's linked to my account is billed. CCS: Take out my wallet, use a card or RFID, decipher the menu, press some buttons and only then can I start charging. If you need instructions like the picture below, you already failed in usability: https://www.mynrma.com.au/-/media/electric-cars/details.png https://www.mynrma.com.au/-/media/electric-cars/details.png
    - clouddrover 7y ago
      > CCS is a standard created by competitors (Audi, BMW, Daimler, Ford, General Motors, Porsche and Volkswagen) Add Hyundai to the list: https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/hyundai-kia-ionity-electric-car-charging/ https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/hyundai-kia-ionity-electr... The reasons for CCS are irrelevant. The practical reality is CCS is the standard now. It's time for Tesla to get in the boat and row. > Tesla: I just tap my charge port to open it and plug the connector. DONE. My credit card that's linked to my account is billed. The Mercedes Me account works the same way across CCS charging networks for the Mercedes EQC. Electrify America, ChargePoint, and EVgo have roaming agreements to allow the one account to be billed across all networks: https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/evgo-electrify-america-charging-station/ https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/evgo-electrify-america-ch... When will Tesla start being a team player?
- manigandham 7y ago
  All manufacturers should converge, and the most common standard now is CCS so logically and practically that's what should be used. It's fine for Tesla's to use adapters, but it would be better to just accept the reality that the timing didn't work out and join the group rather than waiting for the group to change (which at this point won't ever happen).
kwhitefoot 7y ago
The Model 3 in Europe uses CCS and many (perhaps most) of the stations here in Norway already have CCS connectors.
- clouddrover 7y ago
  Yes. All we need now is the timetable for Tesla opening their network to all EVs that can charge via CCS.
- Faark 7y ago
  Unlikely because tesla wants to... they are forced to by gov. Kind of like the EU had to force phone manufacturers to switch to USB. Except tesla still seems to be resisting against the somewhat painful switch.

rainyMammoth 7y ago

This is the same strawman as Apple with the open "Thunderbolt" specs. They open it up and hope other people will adopt it with the goal of profiting Apple that still controls the specs. In addition they can also claim that other players are bad players because they didn't use the "open" specs. That's not how it should work. Other EV makers are doing this correctly with an open consortium. A single brand (Tesla) shouldn't dictate what standards to use.

xedeon 7y ago
The thing is, the Tesla charging standard predates CCS. Tesla has already deployed and invested on many supercharger stations. The CCS consortium instead of adopting it, instead got together and developed CCS. The CCS consortium (composed of mainly GM and german manufacturers) is also not without fault... They completely ignored the already established CHAdeMO standard, because it's developed by five major Japanese automakers. But it seems that Tesla gets all the flak, when the reality is the whole industry do not wan't to hash it out.
- clouddrover 7y ago
  > The thing is, the Tesla charging standard predates CCS. Yes. Tesla tried to set a standard and they failed. The industry did not adopt it. It's time to move on to CCS. > Tesla has already deployed and invested on many supercharger stations. That's not an issue. Tesla doesn't need to start from zero. They can retrofit the chargers for CCS without too much trouble.
  - xedeon 7y ago
    > That's not an issue. Care to elaborate? > They can retrofit the chargers for CCS without too much trouble. Do you have experience running a business? That's easy for someone watching from the sidelines to say. But the reality is that something like this have financial and logistical hurdles. As of Sept this year, there are currently 14,081 individual Supercharger stalls at 1,604 locations worldwide. Retrofitting all of those is hardly "without too much trouble". That's a fact.