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I want a well-put-together electric car that's completely analog from the user's perspective. There's not a single user-facing digital feature I've ever seen on

I want a well-put-together electric car that's completely analog from the user's perspective. There's not a single user-facing digital feature I've ever seen on a car that I wanted, and in fact most of them make things worse. Obviously there's some non-user-facing stuff, i.e. all-wheel-drive, which computerization has revolutionized. But any user-facing stuff is just awful. I want an electric car, but I don't want to be forced into some awful proprietary OS touch screen just to adjust my A/C, and I'm afraid companies are using the switch from gas to electric as an excuse to go in that direction.

mark242 7y ago
Get yourself a used Ford Focus Electric. The range is small, but it's the perfect commuter car and is the closest thing to an "analog" electric car you'll find. Ford took the high-end Titanium body and interior and grafted the electric drivetrain into it.
- mlindner 7y ago
  Any gas car converted to electric is universally terrible. They have to mount the batteries extremely high because the chassis wasn't built for the batteries and this results in utterly horrible handling because the center of mass is too high.
  - nguoi 7y ago
    Handling doesn't matter in city commuting. People also seem happy to buy SUVs and crossovers which have much higher centres of mass than hatchbacks.
    - NullPrefix 7y ago
      Handling of a SUV, usefulness of a hatchback. It's like the worst of both worlds.
      - nguoi 7y ago
        >usefulness of a hatchback i.e. very? They've sold millions of them, that's not for the track performance.
- kerkeslager 7y ago
  I don't really want a commuter car. I live in an area with lots of snow, and when there's not snow on the ground I'm often driving to areas with less-than-ideal roads (for rock climbing). The way I use my Tacoma would eat that car alive. :D
steelframe 7y ago
The Mazda EVs coming out over the next couple of years won't have touchscreens, if that's close enough for you. https://www.motorauthority.com/news/1121372_why-mazda-is-purging-touchscreens-from-its-vehicles https://www.motorauthority.com/news/1121372_why-mazda-is-pur...
skykooler 7y ago
Sounds like you want the Bollinger B1. https://bollingermotors.com/bollinger-b1/ https://bollingermotors.com/bollinger-b1/
- kerkeslager 7y ago
  That actually looks like exactly what I want, but we'll see if the reality lives up to their marketing materials.
radium3d 7y ago
Tesla 3 owner here. Beyond tapping up / down temperature arrows I don't ever need to touch my A/C settings and it remembers my settings when I pick my profile (and soon it will recognize me automatically) so I think it's less annoying than analog setup personally.
- propogandist 7y ago
  Having to fiddle with a touch screen to manage windshield wipers is unnecessary.
  - radium3d 7y ago
    The wipers wipe automatically when the camera detects rain on the windshield. If you want to do a window clean you just push the button on the end of the blinker handle on the left of the steering wheel. It's one of the few physical buttons of the 3.
    - rkagerer 7y ago
      How often do you find yourself wanting to tweak the rate?
      - radium3d 7y ago
        Rate is set automatically based on the amount of rain. The wiper clears the windshield for the cameras for autopilot so it keeps the view clear. I haven't had the urge to adjust the rate yet.
        rkagerer 7y ago
        My car has that, but I tend to manually adjust it regardless as I find it's often a bit to slow or a tad too fast. Maybe I'm just picky. Or maybe your car's algorithm is better :-).
    - the_angry_angel 7y ago
cromka 7y ago
It's funny cause I used to have the same opinion, but then I saw the new Porsche Taycan and now I think Tesla is still very modest in comparison. And then you have companies like Mazda who actually advocate the return of analog control (mentioned in another comment here).
- chris11 7y ago
  The Taycan looks really cool, but it starts at 150k. And Tesla has autopilot. Tesla Model S is a fast car, but's also marketed to buyers who probably would not want to pay 150k+ for a Porsche.
benj111 7y ago
Auto tuning radios are quite nice, and automatic chokes. But in general I agree, I don't want to be battling some interface whilst I'm trying to drive. I'm surprised there havent been moves in Europe to ban the Tesla type, everything on a tablet setup. I'm not allowed to use a phone whilst driving, why is a big screen on the centre console any different?
- iamsb 7y ago
  I was under the impression that tesla lets you adjust most of the settings using voice command, is that incorrect?
  - benj111 7y ago
    Are you suggesting from a safety point of view? Perhaps? I know the latest studies suggest hands free phone calls aren't much better than handed phone calls [1], I don't know if there would be a difference between a conversation and barking out instructions in this context. Id still prefer buttons. [1] https://www.insurancejournal.com/news/international/2016/07/15/420227.htm https://www.insurancejournal.com/news/international/2016/07/...
    - jordanbeiber 7y ago
      I personally believe texting while driving to be the main issue. The number of times I’ve seen people cars swivel around on the highway texting can’t be counted. If I’m driving with someone and I see cars behave erratic I usually bet the driver is texting. Mostly they are and it’s just too obvious - it’s for some reason a specific pattern to it. I can’t be alone in noticing this?
      - rightbyte 7y ago
        They do course adjustment less ofent and more jerky. It looks lile they are practicing driving for the first times.
    - iamsb 7y ago
aembleton 7y ago
Don't you find a reversing camera useful? You can see much more than with your rear view mirror.
- jlg23 7y ago
  As an additional feature, yes, not as a replacement. The great thing about actual mirrors is that they don't need power to function and they can be replaced with any other in worst case.
  - Cthulhu_ 7y ago
    Not needing power is kind of a moot point for an electric car tbh.
    - jlg23 7y ago
      I am talking about the points of failure: Mirror: Glas and attachment to car. Rear View Camera: display, camera, any of the wiring in between, a few fuses.
- kerkeslager 7y ago
  I've never had one and I've never backed into anything without it. I'm not really opposed to reversing cameras by themselves, but a) it takes up dashboard real estate for a feature I don't really use, and b) as soon as you put a screen on the dashboard, the company is going to want to put all sorts of annoying "features" into it.
  - webXL 7y ago
    Backup cams are mandated now, so it's good thing they didn't rely on this sample size of 1. Small children and pets everywhere will be less likely to get run over as a result. The company puts those features in there because the market is telling them to. Bad UX is orthogonal to that fact.
- therealidiot 7y ago
universenz 7y ago
There seems to be a lot of BlackBerry owners in this thread!
codeulike 7y ago
Most electric cars like the Leaf and Niro EV have traditional analog controls for AC and most other features. The touchscreen is mostly used for Satnav and music/radio in those cars. And really can you imagine Satnav without a touchscreen keyboard?
- theshrike79 7y ago
  This is mostly because of legacy issues. They have a supplier that has been doing analog knobs for them for half a century, and they're kind of obliged to still use their knobs. Also the designers are very much in the "everything has to have a button" -mindset, which is hard to get out of.
  - kerkeslager 7y ago
    > Also the designers are very much in the "everything has to have a button" -mindset, which is hard to get out of. Good!
- MagnumOpus 7y ago
  > And really can you imagine Satnav without a touchscreen keyboard If you've ever sat in a recent upscale European car, you can. Unlike touch-screen keyboard solutions, entering destinations via scroll-wheel keyboard (like BMW does) or via guided voice entry is easily and safely possible while driving.
- kerkeslager 7y ago
  > The touchscreen is mostly used for Satnav and music/radio in those cars. I already have a smartphone, which does both of these things better, and which I've already configured to my liking. The only thing a car can do better than my phone for either of these use cases is audio, so just give me a jack please.
chemmail 7y ago
The drive system is seperate from the screen MCU. If it crashes, the car still drives fine.
- alex_young 7y ago
  As an M3 user I can confirm. Boy is it a thrill driving a car you have no instrumentation for! You can't even see how fast you're going.
  - marvin 7y ago
    Whenever I drive, it's perfectly located in my peripheral vision and easy to check. I even feel that moving it a bit out from the center actually encourages to keep my attention on the road rather than the instruments.
    - kerkeslager 7y ago
      > Whenever I drive, it's perfectly located in my peripheral vision and easy to check. ...which is obviously irrelevant, if you've read the grandparent comment of your comment. Please read context before responding.
- StavrosK 7y ago
  I think the GP is just rallying against digital interfaces, which is fair. Physical buttons and dials have far superior UX for cars.
Angostura 7y ago
I'd amend this a bit. I'm happy with digital read-outs, however driver input should in most cases through an analogue knob or switch. I love Carplay in my car, but I'm luck enough ti have physical volume and next/last track button on a steering wheel stalk.
- kerkeslager 7y ago
  > I'd amend this a bit. I'm happy with digital read-outs, however driver input should in most cases through an analogue knob or switch. Yeah, I can agree that some digital readouts are okay. It's really difficult to communicate succinctly what I don't like about modern digital car interfaces.
sizzle 7y ago
Why not smart assistant integration? Me (driving): Alexa/Siri set temperature to 70 degrees Alexa/Siri: temperature set to 70 degrees I would love this, already do it with my smart thermostat + Alexa skill integration.
- close04 7y ago
  I wouldn't mind having the option of a car's voice assistant (exclusive for the car, where I have a signed contract with the manufacturer stating that what happens in the car stays in the car and doesn't get sold for ads). But I'd still very much prefer to have a dedicated physical button option for any basic function that a driver might use while driving. Not a button that navigates through a menu but something where I can use muscle memory and have the guarantee that it does what I expected without taking my eyes off the road for a second. So for example the volume up button should always be a volume up button. They shouldn't change function because in some other menu I picked "temperature" instead of "volume".
- xedeon 7y ago
  I bought an Amazon Alexa Auto so that I can control Spotify via voice: https://youtu.be/WBUKw4801HE https://youtu.be/WBUKw4801HE But I can do that now using the voice commands on the v10 update. I know there's a guy who tinkers with the firmware code and found that the voice commands for temp and other settings are dormant on a previous update. https://twitter.com/greentheonly/status/1112574502678994944 https://twitter.com/greentheonly/status/1112574502678994944
- jorvi 7y ago
  'Alexa, set the temprature to seventy degrees' (system hears 'sevde-gree' due to road noise) "Okay Sizzle, switching to Centigrade temperature scale" 'No! Alexa, switch to Fahrenheit' (system hears 'far ride') "Okay Sizzle, going into long-range mode" turns off AC, music, etc Voice controls in a car sounds good in theory but horrible in practice. I remember someone showing me one of the older pre smart assistant systems, him having to shout 'call X' 3 times and in the end it called the work instead of personal number
- kerkeslager 7y ago
hon3ybadg3r 7y ago
Tesla is going the right way, the car is a driving smartphone and entertainment system. I can't see the next generation using anything else. When you grow old and don't understand the future technology... Guess the future is now
kpmcc 7y ago
Completely agree. I want old school dials with needles on a regular dash and zero screens anywhere in my car. I just want the propulsion of the car to be decoupled from burning fossil fuels. All the other dumb tech can go. The fact that part of this update puts Netflix and Hulu in a car is one of the dumbest things I’ve heard. Car companies figured out instrumentation a while ago, it’s not something that needed to be ‘disrupted’. Most of the dumb stuff seems to come from designing a car that isn’t meant to be driven. @ Folks who don't want to drive your cars, the solution exists, it’s called public transit, and the reason it sucks is because of cars.
gkfasdfasdf 7y ago
I felt the same way before I got my Model 3, however I find that I don't really notice the lack of analog controls. I think the virtual keyboard on a smartphone is a good analogy. A tactile, analog button is better but a touchscreen is good enough.

mark242 7y ago

Get yourself a used Ford Focus Electric. The range is small, but it's the perfect commuter car and is the closest thing to an "analog" electric car you'll find. Ford took the high-end Titanium body and interior and grafted the electric drivetrain into it.

mlindner 7y ago
Any gas car converted to electric is universally terrible. They have to mount the batteries extremely high because the chassis wasn't built for the batteries and this results in utterly horrible handling because the center of mass is too high.
- nguoi 7y ago
  Handling doesn't matter in city commuting. People also seem happy to buy SUVs and crossovers which have much higher centres of mass than hatchbacks.
  - NullPrefix 7y ago
    Handling of a SUV, usefulness of a hatchback. It's like the worst of both worlds.
    - nguoi 7y ago
      >usefulness of a hatchback i.e. very? They've sold millions of them, that's not for the track performance.
kerkeslager 7y ago
I don't really want a commuter car. I live in an area with lots of snow, and when there's not snow on the ground I'm often driving to areas with less-than-ideal roads (for rock climbing). The way I use my Tacoma would eat that car alive. :D

steelframe 7y ago

The Mazda EVs coming out over the next couple of years won't have touchscreens, if that's close enough for you. https://www.motorauthority.com/news/1121372_why-mazda-is-purging-touchscreens-from-its-vehicles https://www.motorauthority.com/news/1121372_why-mazda-is-pur...

skykooler 7y ago

Sounds like you want the Bollinger B1. https://bollingermotors.com/bollinger-b1/ https://bollingermotors.com/bollinger-b1/

kerkeslager 7y ago
That actually looks like exactly what I want, but we'll see if the reality lives up to their marketing materials.

radium3d 7y ago

Tesla 3 owner here. Beyond tapping up / down temperature arrows I don't ever need to touch my A/C settings and it remembers my settings when I pick my profile (and soon it will recognize me automatically) so I think it's less annoying than analog setup personally.

propogandist 7y ago
Having to fiddle with a touch screen to manage windshield wipers is unnecessary.
- radium3d 7y ago
  The wipers wipe automatically when the camera detects rain on the windshield. If you want to do a window clean you just push the button on the end of the blinker handle on the left of the steering wheel. It's one of the few physical buttons of the 3.
  - rkagerer 7y ago
    How often do you find yourself wanting to tweak the rate?
    - radium3d 7y ago
      Rate is set automatically based on the amount of rain. The wiper clears the windshield for the cameras for autopilot so it keeps the view clear. I haven't had the urge to adjust the rate yet.
      - rkagerer 7y ago
        My car has that, but I tend to manually adjust it regardless as I find it's often a bit to slow or a tad too fast. Maybe I'm just picky. Or maybe your car's algorithm is better :-).
  - the_angry_angel 7y ago

cromka 7y ago

It's funny cause I used to have the same opinion, but then I saw the new Porsche Taycan and now I think Tesla is still very modest in comparison. And then you have companies like Mazda who actually advocate the return of analog control (mentioned in another comment here).

chris11 7y ago
The Taycan looks really cool, but it starts at 150k. And Tesla has autopilot. Tesla Model S is a fast car, but's also marketed to buyers who probably would not want to pay 150k+ for a Porsche.

benj111 7y ago

Auto tuning radios are quite nice, and automatic chokes. But in general I agree, I don't want to be battling some interface whilst I'm trying to drive. I'm surprised there havent been moves in Europe to ban the Tesla type, everything on a tablet setup. I'm not allowed to use a phone whilst driving, why is a big screen on the centre console any different?

iamsb 7y ago
I was under the impression that tesla lets you adjust most of the settings using voice command, is that incorrect?
- benj111 7y ago
  Are you suggesting from a safety point of view? Perhaps? I know the latest studies suggest hands free phone calls aren't much better than handed phone calls [1], I don't know if there would be a difference between a conversation and barking out instructions in this context. Id still prefer buttons. [1] https://www.insurancejournal.com/news/international/2016/07/15/420227.htm https://www.insurancejournal.com/news/international/2016/07/...
  - jordanbeiber 7y ago
    I personally believe texting while driving to be the main issue. The number of times I’ve seen people cars swivel around on the highway texting can’t be counted. If I’m driving with someone and I see cars behave erratic I usually bet the driver is texting. Mostly they are and it’s just too obvious - it’s for some reason a specific pattern to it. I can’t be alone in noticing this?
    - rightbyte 7y ago
      They do course adjustment less ofent and more jerky. It looks lile they are practicing driving for the first times.
  - iamsb 7y ago

aembleton 7y ago

Don't you find a reversing camera useful? You can see much more than with your rear view mirror.

jlg23 7y ago
As an additional feature, yes, not as a replacement. The great thing about actual mirrors is that they don't need power to function and they can be replaced with any other in worst case.
- Cthulhu_ 7y ago
  Not needing power is kind of a moot point for an electric car tbh.
  - jlg23 7y ago
    I am talking about the points of failure: Mirror: Glas and attachment to car. Rear View Camera: display, camera, any of the wiring in between, a few fuses.
kerkeslager 7y ago
I've never had one and I've never backed into anything without it. I'm not really opposed to reversing cameras by themselves, but a) it takes up dashboard real estate for a feature I don't really use, and b) as soon as you put a screen on the dashboard, the company is going to want to put all sorts of annoying "features" into it.
- webXL 7y ago
  Backup cams are mandated now, so it's good thing they didn't rely on this sample size of 1. Small children and pets everywhere will be less likely to get run over as a result. The company puts those features in there because the market is telling them to. Bad UX is orthogonal to that fact.
therealidiot 7y ago

universenz 7y ago

There seems to be a lot of BlackBerry owners in this thread!

codeulike 7y ago

Most electric cars like the Leaf and Niro EV have traditional analog controls for AC and most other features. The touchscreen is mostly used for Satnav and music/radio in those cars. And really can you imagine Satnav without a touchscreen keyboard?

theshrike79 7y ago
This is mostly because of legacy issues. They have a supplier that has been doing analog knobs for them for half a century, and they're kind of obliged to still use their knobs. Also the designers are very much in the "everything has to have a button" -mindset, which is hard to get out of.
- kerkeslager 7y ago
  > Also the designers are very much in the "everything has to have a button" -mindset, which is hard to get out of. Good!
MagnumOpus 7y ago
> And really can you imagine Satnav without a touchscreen keyboard If you've ever sat in a recent upscale European car, you can. Unlike touch-screen keyboard solutions, entering destinations via scroll-wheel keyboard (like BMW does) or via guided voice entry is easily and safely possible while driving.
kerkeslager 7y ago
> The touchscreen is mostly used for Satnav and music/radio in those cars. I already have a smartphone, which does both of these things better, and which I've already configured to my liking. The only thing a car can do better than my phone for either of these use cases is audio, so just give me a jack please.

chemmail 7y ago

The drive system is seperate from the screen MCU. If it crashes, the car still drives fine.

alex_young 7y ago
As an M3 user I can confirm. Boy is it a thrill driving a car you have no instrumentation for! You can't even see how fast you're going.
- marvin 7y ago
  Whenever I drive, it's perfectly located in my peripheral vision and easy to check. I even feel that moving it a bit out from the center actually encourages to keep my attention on the road rather than the instruments.
  - kerkeslager 7y ago
    > Whenever I drive, it's perfectly located in my peripheral vision and easy to check. ...which is obviously irrelevant, if you've read the grandparent comment of your comment. Please read context before responding.
StavrosK 7y ago
I think the GP is just rallying against digital interfaces, which is fair. Physical buttons and dials have far superior UX for cars.

Angostura 7y ago

I'd amend this a bit. I'm happy with digital read-outs, however driver input should in most cases through an analogue knob or switch. I love Carplay in my car, but I'm luck enough ti have physical volume and next/last track button on a steering wheel stalk.

kerkeslager 7y ago
> I'd amend this a bit. I'm happy with digital read-outs, however driver input should in most cases through an analogue knob or switch. Yeah, I can agree that some digital readouts are okay. It's really difficult to communicate succinctly what I don't like about modern digital car interfaces.

sizzle 7y ago

Why not smart assistant integration? Me (driving): Alexa/Siri set temperature to 70 degrees Alexa/Siri: temperature set to 70 degrees I would love this, already do it with my smart thermostat + Alexa skill integration.

close04 7y ago
I wouldn't mind having the option of a car's voice assistant (exclusive for the car, where I have a signed contract with the manufacturer stating that what happens in the car stays in the car and doesn't get sold for ads). But I'd still very much prefer to have a dedicated physical button option for any basic function that a driver might use while driving. Not a button that navigates through a menu but something where I can use muscle memory and have the guarantee that it does what I expected without taking my eyes off the road for a second. So for example the volume up button should always be a volume up button. They shouldn't change function because in some other menu I picked "temperature" instead of "volume".
xedeon 7y ago
I bought an Amazon Alexa Auto so that I can control Spotify via voice: https://youtu.be/WBUKw4801HE https://youtu.be/WBUKw4801HE But I can do that now using the voice commands on the v10 update. I know there's a guy who tinkers with the firmware code and found that the voice commands for temp and other settings are dormant on a previous update. https://twitter.com/greentheonly/status/1112574502678994944 https://twitter.com/greentheonly/status/1112574502678994944
jorvi 7y ago
'Alexa, set the temprature to seventy degrees' (system hears 'sevde-gree' due to road noise) "Okay Sizzle, switching to Centigrade temperature scale" 'No! Alexa, switch to Fahrenheit' (system hears 'far ride') "Okay Sizzle, going into long-range mode" turns off AC, music, etc Voice controls in a car sounds good in theory but horrible in practice. I remember someone showing me one of the older pre smart assistant systems, him having to shout 'call X' 3 times and in the end it called the work instead of personal number
kerkeslager 7y ago

hon3ybadg3r 7y ago

Tesla is going the right way, the car is a driving smartphone and entertainment system. I can't see the next generation using anything else. When you grow old and don't understand the future technology... Guess the future is now

kpmcc 7y ago

Completely agree. I want old school dials with needles on a regular dash and zero screens anywhere in my car. I just want the propulsion of the car to be decoupled from burning fossil fuels. All the other dumb tech can go. The fact that part of this update puts Netflix and Hulu in a car is one of the dumbest things I’ve heard. Car companies figured out instrumentation a while ago, it’s not something that needed to be ‘disrupted’. Most of the dumb stuff seems to come from designing a car that isn’t meant to be driven. @ Folks who don't want to drive your cars, the solution exists, it’s called public transit, and the reason it sucks is because of cars.

gkfasdfasdf 7y ago

I felt the same way before I got my Model 3, however I find that I don't really notice the lack of analog controls. I think the virtual keyboard on a smartphone is a good analogy. A tactile, analog button is better but a touchscreen is good enough.