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I think they should include Apple Care for their professional equipment. This won't put any any more money in Apple's pocket but I could see it being another d

I think they should include Apple Care for their professional equipment. This won't put any any more money in Apple's pocket but I could see it being another differentiator and a good bit of PR, especially to all of those price arguments. Plus, it's only $300 and I'm sure Apple could suffer that "loss" on a $6,000 - $30,000 purchase.

pier25 7y ago
I've always argued that for the prices that Apple charges Apple Care should be included in all its products. The first Apple computers I bought lasted for years and I never thought Apple Care was necessary, but since the fiasco with the 2011 MBP and the butterfly keyboards I'm not buying another of its products without Apple Care. Yes, Apple ended up doing the right thing in both cases but it took years after the problems started and a couple of class action lawsuits.
- Marsymars 7y ago
  I don't think Apple should necessarily include coverage for user-caused damage as standard, but having only a single-year warranty on manufacturer defects is kinda shameful for a premium product. I expect premium products across most product categories to carry a three or five year warranty as standard. A single-year warranty is in general an indicator that a) the manufacturer doesn't have faith in reliability past the first year and b) the manufacturer is begrudgingly just meeting the minimum standard for warranties in most jurisdictions. Even if neither of these are the case, the optics aren't good.
  - Corrado 7y ago
    This is a really good thought and I would be OK with Apple extending the warranty on "professional" products instead of full Apple Care.
  - curt15 7y ago
    >A single-year warranty is in general an indicator that a) the manufacturer doesn't have faith in reliability past the first year and b) the manufacturer is begrudgingly just meeting the minimum standard for warranties in most jurisdictions. Even if neither of these are the case, the optics aren't good. Dell's Precision workstations come with 3 years warranty, upgradable to 5 years coverage with on-site service. There is no reason Apple can't match that.
- lostlogin 7y ago
  It presumably is in some areas. In New Zealand we have The Consumer Guarantees Act. Things are expected to have a reasonable life span. What this means is not specified but is generally accepted to be relative to the price paid (eg if it’s expensive, it should last). It’s a fantastic piece of legislation. I’ve had a 2.5 year old iPhone covered for example.
  - slig 7y ago
    I believe that the parent meant that Apple charges enough (in the US), so it should have the extended guarantee included there. In NZ, things cost extra due to that law, correct? The difference: is everybody is paying for that extra protection, there's no choice.
    - xupybd 7y ago
      We do have very high retail mark ups. Perhaps this is due to that law. But it is very nice protection to live under.
      - AmericanChopper 7y ago
        Aside from the additional taxation and regulations in NZ, it does have some pretty unavoidable issues which drive up the prices of consumer goods. It’s a very small market, and very far away. Getting things there is just going to cost more anyway, and the market isn’t big enough to invite significant competition, so there’s usually a large (or at least larger than a lot of other places) markup on imported goods.
        blackoil 7y ago
        Is it really far from China compared to US/Europe?
        AmericanChopper 7y ago
        It’s not just far, it’s far away from everything, including all the major trade routes. In Europe and Asia, a lot more goods are produced close by, and if you ship a product to any country in Europe or Asia, there’s a lot more people to buy it, and a lot more markets close by.
- skofgar 7y ago
  In Europe a lot of products have to include 2 years warranty by default, which makes Apple Care a lot less attractive. You're basically paying the same price for just one more year instead of two.
  - pmontra 7y ago
    2 years for people, 1 year for businesses. That includes self employed people if they want to enter it as an expense in the accounting books (I'm not sure about the terms in English, I hope you understand what I mean.)
  - gambiting 7y ago
    Not every EU country has such a law. In the UK 1-year long warranties are standard, but some other states mandate 2 years on all electronic devices. Unless of course you are talking about the EU-wide consumer protection rights which apply for 2-6 years after purchase, but which people very mistakenly call a guarantee. The problem with this protection is that it protects you only against manufacturing defects. And anything that happens after the initial 6 months is up to you to prove that it existed at the time of purchase. So no, if your MacBook suddenly dies 23 months after purchase, apple doesn't have to repair it, unless you can demonstrate to them that it died because of a manufacturing defect. In comparison, apple care would get your laptop replaced under the same circumstance.
    - m0xte 7y ago
      We have CRA 2015 here in UK. 6 years on everything. Apple ask me what I want to claim under when I take my stuff in there. I only need AppleCare for when I break something :)
- tomcam 7y ago
  I'm wary about AppleCare BECAUSE of the MBP keyboard incident. They refused to replace mine or my wife's. I have purchased well into the 6 figures of Apple devices over the decades. p.s. Switched to Windows when I bought my laptop for that reason.
  - antihero 7y ago
    What is the MBP keyboard incident?
- yitchelle 7y ago
  Apple care should not cover things that are flaws in the design caused by Apple. These type of design flaws should be fixed up as part of their normal warranty process.
- fido 7y ago
  I hear you. My current strategy, unfortunately, is to buy a new MBP, sell it at exactly 23 months so that I can advertise "over 1 year left of Apple Care".
- thelittleone 7y ago
  I live in Indonesia where there is no Apple store and where time for repair of an issue such as keyboard replacement is six weeks. This wasn’t an issue years ago because reliability wasn’t an issue. My ~2005 30” Apple Cinema Display is going strong connected to my 2010 Apple mini. My 2017 MBP however has been the most unreliable hardware I’ve ever had (my first computer was a 286). 6 weeks for repairing a pro device with a hefty premium price.
  - jedrek 7y ago
    Still using my 2004 20" ACD.
- LoSboccacc 7y ago
  assicuration is often a form of self selction bias. people conscious about damaging their property are those that are more likely to take care of it. apple care for everyone can dramatically shift its profitability.
lonelappde 7y ago
Why would they price it so low, and not at 10%?
alpaca128 7y ago
But then they would have to either extend that to all Macbook Pros, iPad Pros and iPhone 11 Pros for consistency, or admit that these devices only got the "Pro" slapped to the name for marketing.
iagooar 7y ago
It goes both ways. If you can afford to spend this (crazy) amount of money, you can pay for Apple Care as well.
nickjj 7y ago
> I think they should include Apple Care for their professional equipment. This won't put any any more money in Apple's pocket but I could see it being another differentiator and a good bit of PR, especially to all of those price arguments. Do Apple hardware failures happen often? In ~20 years of assembling PCs with consumer grade parts I've only had 2 legit non-keyboard/mouse hardware failures (3 if you count lightning destroying a power supply before I knew about surge protectors). For context, I've had 0 hardware failures in the last 10 years. I keep my computers on 24/7 too.
- delgaudm 7y ago
  Sure, they fail plenty, and Apple "extends the repair period" on products fairly often. Macworld has a pretty good roundup for recent ones: https://www.macworld.co.uk/feature/mac/macbook-problems-recalls-3699153/ https://www.macworld.co.uk/feature/mac/macbook-problems-reca... These were one's that specifically came to mind for me: 2019: Battery Recall: https://www.wired.com/story/apple-macbook-pro-recall/ https://www.wired.com/story/apple-macbook-pro-recall/ 2018: Macbook Air Logic Board issue: https://www.laptopmag.com/articles/apple-macbook-air-power-issue-free-repair https://www.laptopmag.com/articles/apple-macbook-air-power-i... 2018: Battery Recall: https://qz.com/1258843/macbook-pro-battery-recall-apple-ends-a-bad-week-by-announcing-faults-in-some-laptops/ https://qz.com/1258843/macbook-pro-battery-recall-apple-ends... 2017: Screen staining: https://www.macrumors.com/2017/11/17/apple-extends-free-staingate-repairs/ https://www.macrumors.com/2017/11/17/apple-extends-free-stai... 2018 SSD Issue: https://www.macrumors.com/2018/11/09/apple-macbook-pro-ssd-service-program/ https://www.macrumors.com/2018/11/09/apple-macbook-pro-ssd-s... 2017: Battery recall https://support.apple.com/15-inch-macbook-pro-battery-recall https://support.apple.com/15-inch-macbook-pro-battery-recall 2016: "Flexgate" _ https://www.macrumors.com/guide/flexgate-macbook-pro-display-issue/ https://www.macrumors.com/guide/flexgate-macbook-pro-display... 2013 - 15 Retina Screen Issues: https://www.cultofmac.com/514741/apple-extends-free-repair-program-2013-2015-macbook-pro/ https://www.cultofmac.com/514741/apple-extends-free-repair-p... 2010: White Macbooks Yellowing - "https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/unibody-white-macbook-turning-yellow-late-2009.862566/ https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/unibody-white-macbook-t... 2009: White MacBooks crack: https://appleinsider.com/articles/09/04/08/apple_addressing_cracks_on_white_macbooks_casings https://appleinsider.com/articles/09/04/08/apple_addressing_...

pier25 7y ago

I've always argued that for the prices that Apple charges Apple Care should be included in all its products. The first Apple computers I bought lasted for years and I never thought Apple Care was necessary, but since the fiasco with the 2011 MBP and the butterfly keyboards I'm not buying another of its products without Apple Care. Yes, Apple ended up doing the right thing in both cases but it took years after the problems started and a couple of class action lawsuits.

Marsymars 7y ago
I don't think Apple should necessarily include coverage for user-caused damage as standard, but having only a single-year warranty on manufacturer defects is kinda shameful for a premium product. I expect premium products across most product categories to carry a three or five year warranty as standard. A single-year warranty is in general an indicator that a) the manufacturer doesn't have faith in reliability past the first year and b) the manufacturer is begrudgingly just meeting the minimum standard for warranties in most jurisdictions. Even if neither of these are the case, the optics aren't good.
- Corrado 7y ago
  This is a really good thought and I would be OK with Apple extending the warranty on "professional" products instead of full Apple Care.
- curt15 7y ago
  >A single-year warranty is in general an indicator that a) the manufacturer doesn't have faith in reliability past the first year and b) the manufacturer is begrudgingly just meeting the minimum standard for warranties in most jurisdictions. Even if neither of these are the case, the optics aren't good. Dell's Precision workstations come with 3 years warranty, upgradable to 5 years coverage with on-site service. There is no reason Apple can't match that.
lostlogin 7y ago
It presumably is in some areas. In New Zealand we have The Consumer Guarantees Act. Things are expected to have a reasonable life span. What this means is not specified but is generally accepted to be relative to the price paid (eg if it’s expensive, it should last). It’s a fantastic piece of legislation. I’ve had a 2.5 year old iPhone covered for example.
- slig 7y ago
  I believe that the parent meant that Apple charges enough (in the US), so it should have the extended guarantee included there. In NZ, things cost extra due to that law, correct? The difference: is everybody is paying for that extra protection, there's no choice.
  - xupybd 7y ago
    We do have very high retail mark ups. Perhaps this is due to that law. But it is very nice protection to live under.
    - AmericanChopper 7y ago
      Aside from the additional taxation and regulations in NZ, it does have some pretty unavoidable issues which drive up the prices of consumer goods. It’s a very small market, and very far away. Getting things there is just going to cost more anyway, and the market isn’t big enough to invite significant competition, so there’s usually a large (or at least larger than a lot of other places) markup on imported goods.
      - blackoil 7y ago
        Is it really far from China compared to US/Europe?
        AmericanChopper 7y ago
        It’s not just far, it’s far away from everything, including all the major trade routes. In Europe and Asia, a lot more goods are produced close by, and if you ship a product to any country in Europe or Asia, there’s a lot more people to buy it, and a lot more markets close by.
skofgar 7y ago
In Europe a lot of products have to include 2 years warranty by default, which makes Apple Care a lot less attractive. You're basically paying the same price for just one more year instead of two.
- pmontra 7y ago
  2 years for people, 1 year for businesses. That includes self employed people if they want to enter it as an expense in the accounting books (I'm not sure about the terms in English, I hope you understand what I mean.)
- gambiting 7y ago
  Not every EU country has such a law. In the UK 1-year long warranties are standard, but some other states mandate 2 years on all electronic devices. Unless of course you are talking about the EU-wide consumer protection rights which apply for 2-6 years after purchase, but which people very mistakenly call a guarantee. The problem with this protection is that it protects you only against manufacturing defects. And anything that happens after the initial 6 months is up to you to prove that it existed at the time of purchase. So no, if your MacBook suddenly dies 23 months after purchase, apple doesn't have to repair it, unless you can demonstrate to them that it died because of a manufacturing defect. In comparison, apple care would get your laptop replaced under the same circumstance.
  - m0xte 7y ago
    We have CRA 2015 here in UK. 6 years on everything. Apple ask me what I want to claim under when I take my stuff in there. I only need AppleCare for when I break something :)
tomcam 7y ago
I'm wary about AppleCare BECAUSE of the MBP keyboard incident. They refused to replace mine or my wife's. I have purchased well into the 6 figures of Apple devices over the decades. p.s. Switched to Windows when I bought my laptop for that reason.
- antihero 7y ago
  What is the MBP keyboard incident?
yitchelle 7y ago
Apple care should not cover things that are flaws in the design caused by Apple. These type of design flaws should be fixed up as part of their normal warranty process.
fido 7y ago
I hear you. My current strategy, unfortunately, is to buy a new MBP, sell it at exactly 23 months so that I can advertise "over 1 year left of Apple Care".
thelittleone 7y ago
I live in Indonesia where there is no Apple store and where time for repair of an issue such as keyboard replacement is six weeks. This wasn’t an issue years ago because reliability wasn’t an issue. My ~2005 30” Apple Cinema Display is going strong connected to my 2010 Apple mini. My 2017 MBP however has been the most unreliable hardware I’ve ever had (my first computer was a 286). 6 weeks for repairing a pro device with a hefty premium price.
- jedrek 7y ago
  Still using my 2004 20" ACD.
LoSboccacc 7y ago
assicuration is often a form of self selction bias. people conscious about damaging their property are those that are more likely to take care of it. apple care for everyone can dramatically shift its profitability.

lonelappde 7y ago

Why would they price it so low, and not at 10%?

alpaca128 7y ago

But then they would have to either extend that to all Macbook Pros, iPad Pros and iPhone 11 Pros for consistency, or admit that these devices only got the "Pro" slapped to the name for marketing.

iagooar 7y ago

It goes both ways. If you can afford to spend this (crazy) amount of money, you can pay for Apple Care as well.

nickjj 7y ago

> I think they should include Apple Care for their professional equipment. This won't put any any more money in Apple's pocket but I could see it being another differentiator and a good bit of PR, especially to all of those price arguments. Do Apple hardware failures happen often? In ~20 years of assembling PCs with consumer grade parts I've only had 2 legit non-keyboard/mouse hardware failures (3 if you count lightning destroying a power supply before I knew about surge protectors). For context, I've had 0 hardware failures in the last 10 years. I keep my computers on 24/7 too.

delgaudm 7y ago
Sure, they fail plenty, and Apple "extends the repair period" on products fairly often. Macworld has a pretty good roundup for recent ones: https://www.macworld.co.uk/feature/mac/macbook-problems-recalls-3699153/ https://www.macworld.co.uk/feature/mac/macbook-problems-reca... These were one's that specifically came to mind for me: 2019: Battery Recall: https://www.wired.com/story/apple-macbook-pro-recall/ https://www.wired.com/story/apple-macbook-pro-recall/ 2018: Macbook Air Logic Board issue: https://www.laptopmag.com/articles/apple-macbook-air-power-issue-free-repair https://www.laptopmag.com/articles/apple-macbook-air-power-i... 2018: Battery Recall: https://qz.com/1258843/macbook-pro-battery-recall-apple-ends-a-bad-week-by-announcing-faults-in-some-laptops/ https://qz.com/1258843/macbook-pro-battery-recall-apple-ends... 2017: Screen staining: https://www.macrumors.com/2017/11/17/apple-extends-free-staingate-repairs/ https://www.macrumors.com/2017/11/17/apple-extends-free-stai... 2018 SSD Issue: https://www.macrumors.com/2018/11/09/apple-macbook-pro-ssd-service-program/ https://www.macrumors.com/2018/11/09/apple-macbook-pro-ssd-s... 2017: Battery recall https://support.apple.com/15-inch-macbook-pro-battery-recall https://support.apple.com/15-inch-macbook-pro-battery-recall 2016: "Flexgate" _ https://www.macrumors.com/guide/flexgate-macbook-pro-display-issue/ https://www.macrumors.com/guide/flexgate-macbook-pro-display... 2013 - 15 Retina Screen Issues: https://www.cultofmac.com/514741/apple-extends-free-repair-program-2013-2015-macbook-pro/ https://www.cultofmac.com/514741/apple-extends-free-repair-p... 2010: White Macbooks Yellowing - "https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/unibody-white-macbook-turning-yellow-late-2009.862566/ https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/unibody-white-macbook-t... 2009: White MacBooks crack: https://appleinsider.com/articles/09/04/08/apple_addressing_cracks_on_white_macbooks_casings https://appleinsider.com/articles/09/04/08/apple_addressing_...