8 ms·

At the risk of sounding conspiratorial, I suspect that the recent trend of social media platforms hiding engagement metrics has less to do with fighting 'envy'

by ajxs 7y ago

At the risk of sounding conspiratorial, I suspect that the recent trend of social media platforms hiding engagement metrics has less to do with fighting 'envy' than simply allowing for more authentic looking proliferation of promoted content. I came to this conclusion from using Instagram after their recent change to hide 'likes'. Even more conspiratorially, I imagine it also helps the platform hide and demote content that is ideological unfavourable or competitive to the platform.

kart23 7y ago
This is wild, but I definitely see this being a thing. Already YouTube allows hiding like/dislike counts, and its used frequently when a company puts out a video that is overwhelmingly disliked, but people who are new to the content wouldn't know.
- HNLurker2 7y ago
  I wouldn't trust any Facebook operation. You know what they try to maximize
- Zenbit_UX 7y ago
  "Comments are disabled for this video" is the 21st century red flag for "this video is dogshit and controversial but the uploaded still wants the ad money / view count".
  - ThrowItAway2Day 7y ago
    I'd entirely disagree. Anything to do with politics brings out the creepy-crawlies. Look at the comments on any news orgs videos. All conspiracy theory and bots. Go to smaller channels with a non-political or economic niche and the comments section are actually nice.
albertshin 7y ago
Sounds like a strategy credit! https://stratechery.com/2013/strategy-credit/ https://stratechery.com/2013/strategy-credit/
- pnongrata 7y ago
  I agree with you. Also, they could be trying to hide their fake users problem. Source is dubious, but still: https://www.rt.com/usa/449733-facebook-fake-users-report/ https://www.rt.com/usa/449733-facebook-fake-users-report/
pluckingdaisies 7y ago
[throwaway for obvious reasons] As one of the people who initiated the hidden likes test on Instagram, I can confidently and authoritatively say you're incorrect. There was no ill intent. It was solely to see if we could make people feel less self conscious by decreasing social comparison. Our hope was to decrease the pressure normal people feel about sharing their lives with their friends and family. We thought this might improve some long-term metrics, but once we discussed the rationale for the test with leadership, the well-being opportunity trumped any impact on metrics--positive or negative. Also, we [IG] did this first, and we started it for the right reasons. Blue followed our lead. Believe it or not, there are people who give a shit about well-being at FB. [edited because jazzy was right that I was too harsh]
- MikeGale 7y ago
  I feel sympathy for those who feel this envy but don't share it. When I realised what this thing is, I realised it's a nothingburger for me. Pity I can't control the monster instead of having some decisions, made in a remote conference room, that are no use to me, rammed down my throat.
- jazzyjackson 7y ago
  Just because you protect your own identity doesn’t save you from reflecting poorly on your employer - O.P. only said they suspected it was the case, no need to call them full of shit Besides, even if it was proposed with good intentions there could have been other, aligned agendas that helped it make it into the product Reddit has been fuzzing scores for years to trip up bots, it’s a good strategy, prevents your enemy from having accurate information. [1] Also demetricating was conceived 7 years ago (!) by Ben Grosser [2] [1] https://www.reddit.com/r/WTF/comments/eaqnf/pardon_me_but_5000_downvotes_wtf_is_worldnews_for/c16omup/?context=3 https://www.reddit.com/r/WTF/comments/eaqnf/pardon_me_but_50... [2] https://bengrosser.com/projects/facebook-demetricator/ https://bengrosser.com/projects/facebook-demetricator/ [edit Thanks for the edit]
  - majewsky 7y ago
    Re demetricating: I've only been on HN for a few years, so I don't know much about its UI's history. But since it's also partially demetricated (not showing votes on comments except for your own posts), could it be considered an earlier example of demetrication?
jstewartmobile 7y ago
These days, "conspiracy theory" just means something happened in broad daylight that our betters would prefer us not to dwell upon. Don't "risk" sounding conspiratorial. Embrace sounding conspiratorial!
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
pnongrata 7y ago
> I imagine it also helps the platform hide and demote content that is ideological unfavourable or competitive to the platform. I'd say it also helps the platform hide a potential fake users problem. For instance, you can no longer see the low engagement on users' posts who paid for followers.
- ajxs 7y ago
  That's exactly what I mean. It would allow for a more organic looking promotion of paid content. If you were able to see all engagement metrics, you may wonder why your favorite off-beat content, with much higher engagement is de-prioritized in favor of content with much lower levels of engagement.
dec0dedab0de 7y ago
For facebook atleast, I think it also helps them hide the decline of people using the site. Like when myspace stopped showing the last time people were logged in.

by ajxs 7y ago

kart23 7y ago

This is wild, but I definitely see this being a thing. Already YouTube allows hiding like/dislike counts, and its used frequently when a company puts out a video that is overwhelmingly disliked, but people who are new to the content wouldn't know.

HNLurker2 7y ago
I wouldn't trust any Facebook operation. You know what they try to maximize
Zenbit_UX 7y ago
"Comments are disabled for this video" is the 21st century red flag for "this video is dogshit and controversial but the uploaded still wants the ad money / view count".
- ThrowItAway2Day 7y ago
  I'd entirely disagree. Anything to do with politics brings out the creepy-crawlies. Look at the comments on any news orgs videos. All conspiracy theory and bots. Go to smaller channels with a non-political or economic niche and the comments section are actually nice.

albertshin 7y ago

Sounds like a strategy credit! https://stratechery.com/2013/strategy-credit/ https://stratechery.com/2013/strategy-credit/

pnongrata 7y ago
I agree with you. Also, they could be trying to hide their fake users problem. Source is dubious, but still: https://www.rt.com/usa/449733-facebook-fake-users-report/ https://www.rt.com/usa/449733-facebook-fake-users-report/

pluckingdaisies 7y ago

[throwaway for obvious reasons] As one of the people who initiated the hidden likes test on Instagram, I can confidently and authoritatively say you're incorrect. There was no ill intent. It was solely to see if we could make people feel less self conscious by decreasing social comparison. Our hope was to decrease the pressure normal people feel about sharing their lives with their friends and family. We thought this might improve some long-term metrics, but once we discussed the rationale for the test with leadership, the well-being opportunity trumped any impact on metrics--positive or negative. Also, we [IG] did this first, and we started it for the right reasons. Blue followed our lead. Believe it or not, there are people who give a shit about well-being at FB. [edited because jazzy was right that I was too harsh]

MikeGale 7y ago
I feel sympathy for those who feel this envy but don't share it. When I realised what this thing is, I realised it's a nothingburger for me. Pity I can't control the monster instead of having some decisions, made in a remote conference room, that are no use to me, rammed down my throat.
jazzyjackson 7y ago
Just because you protect your own identity doesn’t save you from reflecting poorly on your employer - O.P. only said they suspected it was the case, no need to call them full of shit Besides, even if it was proposed with good intentions there could have been other, aligned agendas that helped it make it into the product Reddit has been fuzzing scores for years to trip up bots, it’s a good strategy, prevents your enemy from having accurate information. [1] Also demetricating was conceived 7 years ago (!) by Ben Grosser [2] [1] https://www.reddit.com/r/WTF/comments/eaqnf/pardon_me_but_5000_downvotes_wtf_is_worldnews_for/c16omup/?context=3 https://www.reddit.com/r/WTF/comments/eaqnf/pardon_me_but_50... [2] https://bengrosser.com/projects/facebook-demetricator/ https://bengrosser.com/projects/facebook-demetricator/ [edit Thanks for the edit]
- majewsky 7y ago
  Re demetricating: I've only been on HN for a few years, so I don't know much about its UI's history. But since it's also partially demetricated (not showing votes on comments except for your own posts), could it be considered an earlier example of demetrication?

jstewartmobile 7y ago

These days, "conspiracy theory" just means something happened in broad daylight that our betters would prefer us not to dwell upon. Don't "risk" sounding conspiratorial. Embrace sounding conspiratorial!

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

pnongrata 7y ago

> I imagine it also helps the platform hide and demote content that is ideological unfavourable or competitive to the platform. I'd say it also helps the platform hide a potential fake users problem. For instance, you can no longer see the low engagement on users' posts who paid for followers.

ajxs 7y ago
That's exactly what I mean. It would allow for a more organic looking promotion of paid content. If you were able to see all engagement metrics, you may wonder why your favorite off-beat content, with much higher engagement is de-prioritized in favor of content with much lower levels of engagement.

dec0dedab0de 7y ago

For facebook atleast, I think it also helps them hide the decline of people using the site. Like when myspace stopped showing the last time people were logged in.